The surname Nuppenau

[Viktor77]

What I never understood about the awesome first name Ransom is that when it was popular, in the late 19th century, the noun of the same name also existed. The noun doesn't exactly have the best meaning (it's not like the name Gaylord which has changed meaning over time), why would Victorians feel comfortable naming their child Ransom?

------------

For example, names like Marcia, Felicia, Lucian, Lucius are all pronounced, at least in America, as having a [S] so [ma`S@], [fEli:S@], [luS@n], [luS@s]. I hear they are pronounced more like Lucien in the UK aka [lusi:En], is this true? How did <ci> become [S] and if it is distinctly American, why?

------------

Does anyone have any idea the origin of the surname Nuppenau? Is it of German origin, perhaps?

------------
Google has been no help to me in determining a possible origin for the surname Ladve. The only suggestion is it may be short for Ladvienka, but if it was, wouldn't it then be Ladvie? Not to mention I can't even determine the origin of Ladvienka (besides it being Slavic).

Does anyone have any ideas?

[hwhatting]

Google here lists Ladves in Maharashtra / India:
http://www.google.de/search?q=Ladve&hl= ... rt=20&sa=N

Then there seems to be a Czech place name Ladve:
http://hamelika.webzdarma.cz/h74-05.htm

In Croatian "ladve" seems to designate a kind of logboat / dug out boat:
http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/74285

Would probably be helpful to know something about the background of the name.

[Viktor77]

Google here lists Ladves in Maharashtra / India:
http://www.google.de/search?q=Ladve&hl= ... rt=20&sa=N

Then there seems to be a Czech place name Ladve:
http://hamelika.webzdarma.cz/h74-05.htm

In Croatian "ladve" seems to designate a kind of logboat / dug out boat:
http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/74285

Would probably be helpful to know something about the background of the name.

Danke schoen! I doubt it's Indian since the name is of a white man George Ladve from around the late 19th century when immigration from Eastern Europe was picking up speed to America. I hadn't thought it Croatian because Ladvienka didn't look Croatian. Czech on the other hand looks very fitting and seeing as there's a place there by that name I have to conclude it must be West Slavic, so Czech or Polish, which works if it does happen to be short for Ladvienka--probably more so Czech as IIRC final -ka is a common surname indicator in Czech. Danke schoen again!

[Viktor77]

Edited-Bump.

[caedes]

Does anyone have any idea the origin of the surname Nuppenau/Neppenau? Is it of German origin, perhaps?

Probably this helps a bit.

[Viktor77]

Does anyone have any idea the origin of the surname Nuppenau/Neppenau? Is it of German origin, perhaps?

Probably this helps a bit.

Ooh thanks, it's very northern proximity makes me wonder if it is Danish, perhaps even Jutish.

[Viktor77]

Ok, solved, it is Danish. But however would it be pronounced?

[linguoboy]

Ok, solved, it is Danish. But however would it be pronounced? :?

Just the way it's spelled.

[Viktor77]

Ok, solved, it is Danish. But however would it be pronounced?

Just the way it's spelled.

[nu.pE.naU]?

[linguoboy]

Ok, solved, it is Danish. But however would it be pronounced? :?

Just the way it's spelled.

[nu.pE.naU]?

In Standard German, ['nUpn=?ao]. I can't speak to Danish. But what convinces you it's of Danish origin anyway?

[Viktor77]

In Standard German, ['nUpn=?ao]. I can't speak to Danish. But what convinces you it's of Danish origin anyway?

I was searching for the name via Google.de, etc. But when Caedes gave me that map I decided to try Google.dk and I found numerous people with the surname including a company and a noble family.

[linguoboy]

I was searching for the name via Google.de, etc. But when Caedes gave me that map I decided to try Google.dk and I found numerous people with the surname including a company and a noble family.

That doesn't mean it originated there. After all, the surname of the Danish royal family is Glücksborg, a castle in the modern German province of Schleswig-Holstein. (The full name is actually Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.) It looks like a fieldname (Au is german for "water meadow"), but I can't find a corresponding toponym in either Germany or Denmark.

[Travis B.]

I was searching for the name via Google.de, etc. But when Caedes gave me that map I decided to try Google.dk and I found numerous people with the surname including a company and a noble family.

That doesn't mean it originated there. After all, the surname of the Danish royal family is Glücksborg, a castle in the modern German province of Schleswig-Holstein. (The full name is actually Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.) It looks like a fieldname (Au is german for "water meadow"), but I can't find a corresponding toponym in either Germany or Denmark.

One thing is that historically Denmark had much stronger ties to what is now northern Germany than it does today, with Schleswig-Holstein being quite politically influential within Denmark while Holstein itself was formally part of the Holy Roman Empire.

[Viktor77]

That doesn't mean it originated there. After all, the surname of the Danish royal family is Glücksborg, a castle in the modern German province of Schleswig-Holstein. (The full name is actually Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.) It looks like a fieldname (Au is german for "water meadow"), but I can't find a corresponding toponym in either Germany or Denmark.

You make a valid point, I suppose it would depend on the historical linguistic make-up of Schleswig-Holstein which you propose is more German than Danish, correct? Interesting on the au part. I'll let you know if my search for Nuppen brings up anything of interest.

[Travis B.]

That doesn't mean it originated there. After all, the surname of the Danish royal family is Glücksborg, a castle in the modern German province of Schleswig-Holstein. (The full name is actually Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg.) It looks like a fieldname (Au is german for "water meadow"), but I can't find a corresponding toponym in either Germany or Denmark.

You make a valid point, I suppose it would depend on the historical linguistic make-up of Schleswig-Holstein which you propose is more German than Danish, correct? Interesting on the au part. I'll let you know if my search for Nuppen brings up anything of interest.

This is a more complex question than it may seem on the surface, as much of the population of Schleswig-Holstein historically spoke South Jutish at home and amongst themselves, but for interacting with the rest of the world used Low Saxon and, later on, Standard German rather than Standard Danish, and hence over time ended up seeing themselves in many cases as German rather than Danish even if their home language was actually still South Jutish rather than, say, Low Saxon.

[Viktor77]

This is a more complex question than it may seem on the surface, as much of the population of Schleswig-Holstein historically spoke South Jutish at home and amongst themselves, but for interacting with the rest of the world used Low Saxon and, later on, Standard German rather than Standard Danish, and hence over time ended up seeing themselves in many cases as German rather than Danish even if their home language was actually still South Jutish rather than, say, Low Saxon.

Could it possibly be of Jutish origin then? Does au trace back to Jutish? Anyone have a map of Schleswig-Holstein in Jutish? I suppose I could try to use a Danish map.

[Travis B.]

This is a more complex question than it may seem on the surface, as much of the population of Schleswig-Holstein historically spoke South Jutish at home and amongst themselves, but for interacting with the rest of the world used Low Saxon and, later on, Standard German rather than Standard Danish, and hence over time ended up seeing themselves in many cases as German rather than Danish even if their home language was actually still South Jutish rather than, say, Low Saxon.

Could it possibly be of Jutish origin then? Does au trace back to Jutish? Anyone have a map of Schleswig-Holstein in Jutish? I suppose I could try to use a Danish map.

Well, look here: South Jutish; in many cases Standard German and Low Saxon preserve elements of South Jutish placenames that differ considerably therefrom in Standard Danish, and somehow I would not be surprised if the same also applied to South Jutish surnames as well.

[Niedokonany]

-au is also a very frequent result of the germanization of a few Slavic suffixes of the structure -{a, o}v(a)

c.f. Turnov - Turnau, Spandawa - Spandau, Wrocław - Breslau etc. etc.

The stem looks rather Germanic to me, though. Maybe this is somehow related?

[Travis B.]

-au is also a very frequent result of the germanization of a few Slavic suffixes of the structure -{a, o}v(a)

c.f. Turnov - Turnau, Spandawa - Spandau, Wrocław - Breslau etc. etc.

I was thinking that too, but I somewhat discounted it as the area where the name is most concentrated is not really in the historically Slavic area of northern Germany per se.

[linguoboy]

I was thinking that too, but I somewhat discounted it as the area where the name is most concentrated is not really in the historically Slavic area of northern Germany per se.

Same here. If the area of concentration were a little further east, it would be a different story. But Jutland has been solidly Germanic in language for, what, 3,000 years?

[Viktor77]

Bump.

[Whimemsz]

Uh I think it's just a simplification of /sj/. Like, "Marcia" was at one point /mArsj@/ --> now /mArS@/. That would be the simplest explanation, surely.

[Xonen]

Uh I think it's just a simplification of /sj/. Like, "Marcia" was at one point /mArsj@/ --> now /mArS@/. That would be the simplest explanation, surely.

Yeah. You also get /S/ for <si> in words like "fission" (and similarly /Z/ for earlier */zj/, eg. "fusion").

[Viktor77]

Ah, thank you. So do you know if this is more prevalent in the US?

[Tengado]

Possibly - Americans do seem to have reduced the /j/ out of words like stupid and new (where in Britain we don't), but then again not by palatalising the consonant, so it could just be coincidence.