It's common in Scotland – I didn't realise that it wasn't generally used elsewhere until I was made fun of for it by some Welsh kids.Chuma wrote:I say that too. It makes sense.Risla Amahendir wrote:I forgot to mention this before, but I went through an "amn't" phase.
The Innovative Usage Thread
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Yesterday I asked a friend if he disdained of risotto pans. My neologising knows no bounds!
"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."
–Herm Albright
Even better than a proto-conlang, it's the *kondn̥ǵʰwéh₂s
–Herm Albright
Even better than a proto-conlang, it's the *kondn̥ǵʰwéh₂s
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Today I heard a city employee refer to a corrupt politician[*] as "skunky". Previously I'd only heard this term used to describe rancid beer, and it took me a moment to parse it in this context.
[*] I know, a redundant expression here in Illinois.
[*] I know, a redundant expression here in Illinois.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
A few times in the past, I've heard people use a verb "to verse" meaning "compete against". As in, Do you want to verse me?
It's a back-formation from "versus", with the Latin-derived "-us" /-əz/ being reanalyzed as a 3s verb ending.
Some dude versus some other dude → "Some dude vers-es some other dude"
I haven't heard it recently, but I distinctly remember it being used on a few occasions. Can't cite specific quotes, though.
It's a back-formation from "versus", with the Latin-derived "-us" /-əz/ being reanalyzed as a 3s verb ending.
Some dude versus some other dude → "Some dude vers-es some other dude"
I haven't heard it recently, but I distinctly remember it being used on a few occasions. Can't cite specific quotes, though.
Last edited by Bedelato on Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I've heard this enough (although never from anyone over the age of 13 or so) that I'd guess it's relatively widespread.Bedelato wrote:A few times in the past, I've heard people talking about "versing" each other (e.g. in a competition).
It's a back-formation from "versus", with the "-us" being reanalyzed as a 3s verb ending.
I haven't heard it recently, but I distinctly remember it being used on a few occasions. Can't cite specific quotes, though.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I've heard it frequently too. Concur on widespread.
MI DRALAS, KHARULE MEVO STANI?!
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I have some sort of strange (well, it may well be widespread) animacy or pronoun/noun contrast thing going on with word order in dative-shifts. A noun may be dative shifted:
'I gave the man the box'
And pronouns may be dative shifted:
'I gave him the box'
'I gave him it'
But a noun, when the recipient, cannot take a pronominal theme without the word order switching:
*'I gave the man it' > 'I gave it the man'.
'I gave the man the box'
And pronouns may be dative shifted:
'I gave him the box'
'I gave him it'
But a noun, when the recipient, cannot take a pronominal theme without the word order switching:
*'I gave the man it' > 'I gave it the man'.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Looks like we've got a new determiner...The phpBB FAQ wrote:» Why isn’t X feature available?
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
widespreadBedelato wrote:Looks like we've got a new determiner...The phpBB FAQ wrote:» Why isn’t X feature available?
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Also, following a discussion on another thread: can you guys dative-shift in the passive?
'It was given the boy by his mum' - it was given to the boy by his mum
To be fair this sentence would also allow exactly the same placings with 'to', and it's possible to analyse my weird dative shiftings as dropping of 'to' LIKE a dative shift but with standard syntax, which would explain this sentence just as well.
'It was given the boy by his mum' - it was given to the boy by his mum
To be fair this sentence would also allow exactly the same placings with 'to', and it's possible to analyse my weird dative shiftings as dropping of 'to' LIKE a dative shift but with standard syntax, which would explain this sentence just as well.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I can't, but I don't think I can dative shift with pronouns at all.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
"Submarine"? According to Wiktionary, the meaning is "torpedo", but this usage is completely new to me and I wouldn't've gotten it from context.In a meeting on Thursday morning, the House Democratic caucus rejected the president's proposed deal on the Bush tax cuts but did not fully submarine the possibility of its passage, multiple sources tell The Huffington Post.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Heard it as an adjective and a verb before, but not as a noun. Inevitable, I guess.I'm not going to go into how much mickeymouse I've had to deal with trying to get my DSL connection up and running.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Never heard it as a verb, only as an adjective or noun, oddly. Most frequently as an adjective, of course.linguoboy wrote:Heard it as an adjective and a verb before, but not as a noun. Inevitable, I guess.I'm not going to go into how much mickeymouse I've had to deal with trying to get my DSL connection up and running.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
Does anyone else find themselves using 'hard' as a adverb generally meaning 'vigourously, a lot, strongly' for any verb? It's common with certain verbs (like 'work hard') but I use it (and I think I remember hearing it used) more liberally, like in 'running hard' or 'I care really hard about this' or 'she grabbed it hard'.
And the other day I said 'elsewhere' to change a subject, like one would say (in my area at least) 'anyways' or 'okay'. Not sure why I chose that word, but it seemed to fit.
And the other day I said 'elsewhere' to change a subject, like one would say (in my area at least) 'anyways' or 'okay'. Not sure why I chose that word, but it seemed to fit.
Ascima mresa óscsma sáca psta numar cemea.
Cemea tae neasc ctá ms co ísbas Ascima.
Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho. Carho.
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
"run hard" yes; "grab hard" yes; "care hard" no.äreo wrote:Does anyone else find themselves using 'hard' as a adverb generally meaning 'vigourously, a lot, strongly' for any verb? It's common with certain verbs (like 'work hard') but I use it (and I think I remember hearing it used) more liberally, like in 'running hard' or 'I care really hard about this' or 'she grabbed it hard'.
"In other action".äreo wrote:And the other day I said 'elsewhere' to change a subject, like one would say (in my area at least) 'anyways' or 'okay'. Not sure why I chose that word, but it seemed to fit.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
More dative-shifting fun.
Today I heard:
'Have you got anyone presents?'
'I've got Jess, but not Laura. You?'
'Well, I've bought Laura, but I don't know what to get Jess.'
I've never noticed this before - dative-shifting without a first direct object present. I suppose it would be better to analyse this as being the creation of a new monotransitive use of these verbs by analogy with 'tell' ('tell him', 'tell (him) the story (/to him)', where the monotransitive use treats the object as the recipient and the ditransitive shifts the recipient to indirect object (I'm not quite sure what this is called - it seems a bit like ergative verbs but with a different situation).
I'll have to look out to see if this is generally applicable to all verbs.
Agh! Every time I try and make this post someone else replies.
Today I heard:
'Have you got anyone presents?'
'I've got Jess, but not Laura. You?'
'Well, I've bought Laura, but I don't know what to get Jess.'
I've never noticed this before - dative-shifting without a first direct object present. I suppose it would be better to analyse this as being the creation of a new monotransitive use of these verbs by analogy with 'tell' ('tell him', 'tell (him) the story (/to him)', where the monotransitive use treats the object as the recipient and the ditransitive shifts the recipient to indirect object (I'm not quite sure what this is called - it seems a bit like ergative verbs but with a different situation).
I'll have to look out to see if this is generally applicable to all verbs.
With some verbs. 'Think hard', 'run hard', 'work hard', 'try hard'. But I think these are all reasonably standard.Does anyone else find themselves using 'hard' as a adverb generally meaning 'vigourously, a lot, strongly' for any verb? It's common with certain verbs (like 'work hard') but I use it (and I think I remember hearing it used) more liberally, like in 'running hard' or 'I care really hard about this' or 'she grabbed it hard'.
Agh! Every time I try and make this post someone else replies.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
No, because in the first sentence, you aren't switching the right things. Dative shift, at least IMD, switches the "givee" with the "given" (sorry, can't remember thematic roles, just finished a class on HPSG, so that's the roles we always assigned ). There is no rule such that you can switch the "giver" and the "givee," so it doesn't work.YngNghymru wrote:Also, following a discussion on another thread: can you guys dative-shift in the passive?
'It was given the boy by his mum' - it was given to the boy by his mum
To be fair this sentence would also allow exactly the same placings with 'to', and it's possible to analyse my weird dative shiftings as dropping of 'to' LIKE a dative shift but with standard syntax, which would explain this sentence just as well.
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- Location: Vancouver, British Columbia / Colombie Britannique, Canada
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
How is "amn't" pronounced?
Hmm... It seems that the use of "en de que" (some extension of good ol' dequeísmo) is not so Salvadorian as I thought. Apparently there's a song by this Cuban-Spaniard singer called Elsa Baeza with the title "En de que te vi".
Hmm... It seems that the use of "en de que" (some extension of good ol' dequeísmo) is not so Salvadorian as I thought. Apparently there's a song by this Cuban-Spaniard singer called Elsa Baeza with the title "En de que te vi".
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
how do you think it's pronounced?Renaçido wrote:How is "amn't" pronounced?
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I'm betting it's either got a schwa between the m and the n, or the n is dropped, personally. it's an awkward contraction of 'am not' after all. (what becomes of 'I'm not' when you drop the pronoun, i guess)finlay wrote:how do you think it's pronounced?Renaçido wrote:How is "amn't" pronounced?
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I cannot help but pronounce it [ɛmpt]*, as one syllable; I really cannot get myself to put an [n] in there, one way or another.finlay wrote:how do you think it's pronounced?Renaçido wrote:How is "amn't" pronounced?
* Yes, [ɛ]; I have decided that the open diacritic really is not needed here, from paying to attention to people I know back in Wisconsin, many of whom seem, in everyday speech, to have an even closer vowel than I have here. (But then, I might confuse people who do not realize I mean historical /æ/ with it, which is the main reason why I even had that diacritic there in the first place.)
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
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Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I suppose that maybe there's a schwa between the /m/ and the /n/ (like Chargone says), or that maybe there's no /n/ so it ends up as [-m(p)t], (like Travis says), so that's why I asked. I've never heard it myself.finlay wrote:how do you think it's pronounced?Renaçido wrote:How is "amn't" pronounced?
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I noticed tonight how funny the word "claustrophobic" is in my dialect, namely that it can be used to describe a person affected by claustrophobia ("I am claustrophobic") as in standard, but it can also be used to describe a situation that induces claustrophobia ("That room is so claustrophobic"). Interesting, and I'm fairly certain this is quite widespread, or at the very least, doesn't sound strange because I have definitely heard it from others before.
*edit* Also I discussed earlier with a suitemate pluralizing "fruit leather"...he went with "10 fruit leathers" (I had just bought 10...go ahead and judge ), while I went with "10 strips of fruit leather". "Fruit leathers" feels wrong to me because I'm fairly certain you can't pluralize "leather" (is it a collective noun? I don't think it is...)...what are the thoughts of the ZBB with regards to this?
*edit* Also I discussed earlier with a suitemate pluralizing "fruit leather"...he went with "10 fruit leathers" (I had just bought 10...go ahead and judge ), while I went with "10 strips of fruit leather". "Fruit leathers" feels wrong to me because I'm fairly certain you can't pluralize "leather" (is it a collective noun? I don't think it is...)...what are the thoughts of the ZBB with regards to this?
Last edited by Rui on Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Innovative Usage Thread
I should note that amn't is not a native word in my dialect; I just stated how I would pronounce it upon reading it.Renaçido wrote:I suppose that maybe there's a schwa between the /m/ and the /n/ (like Chargone says), or that maybe there's no /n/ so it ends up as [-m(p)t], (like Travis says), so that's why I asked. I've never heard it myself.finlay wrote:how do you think it's pronounced?Renaçido wrote:How is "amn't" pronounced?
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.