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zompist bboard • View topic - Ayeri grammar thread - updated 01/14/2011

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:21 pm 
Avisaru
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Ah, I see. The thing is, when reading a document like this on a screen, the footnotes get a little lost because you can't refer to them without scrolling. Maybe you should consider moving some of them into the text? Or even use sidenotes? Those are harder to manage, but easier to read. Maybe the cross-references are moved into the text, the other notes kept as footnotes. I don't know. Or I can just learn to live with some scrolling.
I'm going to read some more now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:11 am 
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Well I hope I feel like writing chapter 1 and the ones after 6 sometime this year …


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:01 pm 
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So, finished reading through. Nothing of note that I see. I can't wait for more!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Great job, thanks!

Don't you think I could elaborate a bit more on basic morphosyntactic alignment chapter? I mean, what I wrote down there already is all I could think of that was relevant for that chapter, as Descr. Morph. has it. But yeah, anything of interst to add there?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:04 pm 
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Yes, definitely. I assumed it wasn't complete. I also wouldn't mind some declension tables as an overview to better visualise the relationship between different marked categories. I'm honestly not sure what chapter they should go in, though. I've never read Describing Morphosyntax, so the order in which you describe things is a bit alien to me, as I said before. But as I got into it was fine. But I do feel like the grammar is missing some sort of overview chapter of declension patterns.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:11 pm 
Avisaru
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I'll be interested in chapters 9 through 12.

I think you should be congratulated for doing chapters 1 through 8 as thoroughly as you have.
Is the kind of focus marker on the verb Ayeri has, common in natlangs? Which natlangs have such a thing?

In a causative clause, is the agent-of-effect marked as if it's an instrument?

It's interesting that genitive=ablative (sources or origins). Is that as common in natlangs as, or more common than, dative=allative (goals or destinations, 64b in 5.4)? (BTW I do not see 64a of 5.4 as a good example of "locational genitive". "I tell of my work" doesn't seem very ablative. A genitive construction for "The girl from Ipanema" would be better IMO.)

One could and might expect the thing located in 7.2 predicate locatives to be marked the same as the thing transferred in ditransitive sentences. In both cases it has the semantic role of "theme" (thing located or moved). But is that what happens? It looks like you've got it marked as Agent in 7.2; if Ayeri's case-marking is more semantic role than grammatical relation, the thing located is hardly an Agent, is it?

Have you explained your glossing abbreviations yet? You probably need another appendix to do that. Right now it could probably be a lot shorter than your other appendices. Right now the fact that A is Agent and P is Patient is noted in the first time you use them, but not in a "central" location that collects all of the glossing abbreviations.

You've spelled "denominalization" two different ways (also "denominalisation"); American with <z> and British with <s>. And you haven't defined it. "Nominalization" is making a noun out of something. I thought a "denominal verb" was a verb derived from a noun but retaining no noun-like features; a "denominal adjective" was an adjective derived from a noun but retaining no nounlike features; and a "denominal adverb" was an adverb derived from a noun but retaining no nounlike features; and so on in case there is such a thing as a "denominal adposition" or a "denominal conjunction". If that's not denominalization, what is? mentions "give a smile", "take a look", "pay a visit". Are those the denominalizations you were talking about?

Why are those mentioned in the same breath as nominalization? In what way are the processes parallel or opposed, rather than their merely being a similarity in spelling and pronunciation of the terms by which those processes are called?

In 6.1 about compounds, can you derive each some word of each part-of-speech from a compound of two words of each part-of-speech? If you have seven parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, adposition, conjunction, pronoun) are all combinations of part1 <-- part2 + part3 possible?
Just looking at noun <-- noun+noun for the moment; Panini mentioned six types, if I recall correctly. Among them were dvandva, tatsuma, and bahuvrihi. Are you going to cover all six (if that's the right number) types in 6.1? Do all types occur in Ayeri or are there some of Panini's types that just don't apply to Ayeri?
How about
verb <-- verb+noun
or
verb <-- verb+adposition
or
verb <-- verb+verb
compounds?
I know 6.1 is part of 6 "Noun and Nounphrase Operations", so
word <-- noun+noun
and
noun <-- word+word
compounds are the kind 6.1 is (probably entirely, but at least) mostly about. Nevertheless, ...

Can you express all 30 of Fillmore's "The Case for Case" roles in Ayeri via some combination of Ayeri cases, prepositions, postpositions, and focus-markers? Does every combination of a case and a preposition have a meaning? Will there be a table somewhere that will say what those are? Do some of them also depend on the focus-marker for their specific meaning? Can you use a preposition and a postposition both at the same time on the same object noun-phrase as long as it's in locative case?

4.4.2 how about fractions? "half, one-and-a-half, one-third, one-less-a-third, one-and-a-third, quarter, one-less-a-quarter, one-and-a-quarter, etc.". You have multiplicative numbers like twice and thrice etc.; can you also have numbers that multiply by a fraction?

I'm running out of time. I still have to finish reviewing chapters 1-5. But that's what I've got to ask about chapters 6-8 so far. Sorry I haven't proof-read my questions; some of them may not be well-asked, for which I apologize if that's so.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:38 am 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:21 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:19 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:37 pm 
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