ZBB accent archive

[finlay]

one thing that bothers me is that this line:
bags, and we will go meet her Wednesday at the train station.
is very ungrammatical imd. also, i have no idea what snow peas are.

[treskro]

[finlay]

ah, ça c'est du mange-tout.

[Radius Solis]

one thing that bothers me is that this line:
bags, and we will go meet her Wednesday at the train station.
is very ungrammatical imd.

I'm curious about this, if nobody minds a little off-topic question. (I'll split it out if it gets to be a problem.) Is it the serialized "go" that's the grammatical issue for you? If so, in what contexts? Are any of the following ungrammatical for you:

a) Let's go eat.
b) Let's go eat at the Peking Moon sometime.
c) I'll go take out the trash.
d) Go jump in a lake.
e) Don't go jump in a lake.
f) Run go get me a newspaper.
g) You can go see it now.

This is a different construction from "go"+participle, of course. In that structure, like "go shopping", it can easily change tense to "went shopping"; in the above examples, it cannot, and so I'd call it a particle rather than a serial verb if it weren't for the fact it still bears stress like a content word should.

(Examples (e) and (f) are marginal at best for me, and the others fully grammatical.)

[James0289]

one thing that bothers me is that this line:
bags, and we will go meet her Wednesday at the train station.
is very ungrammatical imd.

Is it the serialized "go" that's the grammatical issue for you?

At least in my dialect, they're all ungrammatical to me - I understand what people mean when they use serial verbs like that, but it just sounds otherworldly. American in particular (also when people say they have a 'couple things' to do...)

1. Where were you born? Kettering, Northamptonshire, but my hometown is Rushden, Northamptonshire
2. What is your native language? English
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? French
4. How old are you? 22
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? N/A
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) Naturalistically
7. How long have you lived in an English-speaking country? Which country? All my life - the UK (England)

If I remember I'll do a recording at some point - but there'll probably be a few changes to the text to make it sound & feel more natural for me to speak (e.g., 'shop' rather than 'store'; 'go and meet her on Wednesday', 'mange-tout' rather than 'snow peas', etc.).

[finlay]

one thing that bothers me is that this line:
bags, and we will go meet her Wednesday at the train station.
is very ungrammatical imd.

I'm curious about this, if nobody minds a little off-topic question. (I'll split it out if it gets to be a problem.) Is it the serialized "go" that's the grammatical issue for you? If so, in what contexts? Are any of the following ungrammatical for you:

a) Let's go eat.
b) Let's go eat at the Peking Moon sometime.
c) I'll go take out the trash.
d) Go jump in a lake.
e) Don't go jump in a lake.
f) Run go get me a newspaper.
g) You can go see it now.

This is a different construction from "go"+participle, of course. In that structure, like "go shopping", it can easily change tense to "went shopping"; in the above examples, it cannot, and so I'd call it a particle rather than a serial verb if it weren't for the fact it still bears stress like a content word should.

(Examples (e) and (f) are marginal at best for me, and the others fully grammatical.)

Nope, it's the lack of the word "on" in "on Wednesday". I just can't say "go do X Wednesday"; I have to say "go do X on Wednesday". It's this kind of thing where I find the text not quite dialect-neutral when I start not to trust it somewhat.

As for your sentences, they're all grammatical except for (f), but I think I'd prefer a different kind of construction – they'd be better with "go and X", for one thing, and I keep thinking they're Americanisms – so I'm not sure if they are or not.

[Nortaneous]

a) Let's go eat.
b) Let's go eat at the Peking Moon sometime.
c) I'll go take out the trash.
d) Go jump in a lake.
e) Don't go jump in a lake.
f) Run go get me a newspaper.
g) You can go see it now.

b is ungrammatical for me, but only because of the "sometime". I wonder what's going on there.

(f is also ungrammatical, and I'm not sure about e)

[Radius Solis]

Nope, it's the lack of the word "on" in "on Wednesday". I just can't say "go do X Wednesday"; I have to say "go do X on Wednesday". It's this kind of thing where I find the text not quite dialect-neutral when I start not to trust it somewhat.

Aha! Thanks.

As for your sentences, they're all grammatical except for (f), but I think I'd prefer a different kind of construction – they'd be better with "go and X", for one thing, and I keep thinking they're Americanisms – so I'm not sure if they are or not.

Interesting; to me "go and X" is... possible, for some of them, but strange, because it tends to be used with a quite different meaning. To me it most normally implies disapproval or expresses harm, like "Dammit, why'd I have to go and stub my toe again?".It's also syntactically a different construction, not just adding "and" to the pattern in my examples, because we can use the past tense here (Jamie went and jumped off a bridge versus *Jamie went jumped off a bridge). Still, a neutral "let's go and eat" is not an impossible thing for me to say. But "Go jump in a lake" is a set phrase meaning basically "go to hell", and changing its wording would break that implication and instead make it a bizarre instruction to actually jump into a lake.

[Ossicone]

Nope, it's the lack of the word "on" in "on Wednesday". I just can't say "go do X Wednesday"; I have to say "go do X on Wednesday". It's this kind of thing where I find the text not quite dialect-neutral when I start not to trust it somewhat.

Aha! Thanks.

I had the same issue. I had to rerecord myself because the first time because I inserted 'on' before 'Wednesday.'

[finlay]

I did hear a recording of a Scottish man who changed the final line to "we'll go meet her on Wednesday", which feels much more natural. By the sounds of it I kind of mumbled the line when I recorded it in 2007.

[bulbaquil]

1. Where were you born? Texas, USA
2. What is your native language? English
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? Some German, French, and Japanese. Nowhere near fluent in any of those.
4. How old are you? 23
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? 0
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) Naturalistically
7. How long have you lived in an english-speaking country? Which country? 23 years, USA

Stella text: http://vocaroo.com/?media=vXYLLVHhqqVba5sEc

[Christopher Schröder]

1. Where were you born? Raleigh, North Carolina, United States
2. What is your native language? English
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? French, partially
4. How old are you? 22, teetering on the edge of 23
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? Five or so, whenever elementary school started.
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) Naturalistically at first, though my idiolect incorporates many learnt features, including but not limited to a distinction between wind and wend which I originally merged. When reading prepared texts, I tend towards r-dropping, which is not otherwise a natural characteristic of my speech, and not something I have attempted to adopt.
7. How long have you lived in an english-speaking country? Which country? Nearly 23 years, and the same as the one in which I was born.

The Stella paragraph may be found here.
And a recording of me reading an old translation I made of Victor Hugo's "Clair de lune" may be found here

Edit:

Also, a fragment from the Ormulum may be found [url=https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Ormulum.mp3?w=30752020]

The Middle English (courtesy of Wikipedia):

Forrþrihht anan se time comm
þatt ure Drihhtin wollde
ben borenn i þiss middellærd
forr all mannkinne nede
he chæs himm sone kinnessmenn
all swillke summ he wollde
& whær he wollde borenn ben
he chæs all att hiss wille.

[finlay]

Dammit, could they not have made a sample text that wasn't a tongue-twister?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15543016/stella.wav

yes. i know i don't sound scottish.

[MisterBernie]

1. Where were you born? Lower Austria
2. What is your native language? German
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? French
4. How old are you? 23
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? 10 or 11
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) academically
7. How long have you lived in an english-speaking country? Which country? never lived in any anglophone country

First, the Stella text.

My version of Standard German in a formal context:
GG - Präambel - this
GG - Art 1 - this

Now, here's my translation of the Stella text:
Ruf bitte Stella an. Bitte sie, diese Dinge aus dem Laden mitzubringen:
600gr frische Erbsen, fünf dicke Scheiben Blauschimmelkäse, und vielleicht einen Snack für ihren Bruder Bob. Wir brauchen auch eine kleine Plastikschlange und einen großen Spielzeugfrosch für die Kinder. Sie kann diese Dinge in drei rote Tüten packen, und wir treffen sie dann am Mittwoch am Bahnhof.
I used 600 grams because I have no idea what a "spoon" as a measurement is, so I just wanted to get a 6 in there.
Stella in German

And finally, an attempt at semi-naturalistic speech production: Stella in German, second take.

ETA: FWIW, my take on Catullus 5 and an excerpt from La belle au bois dormant.

[Yng]

yes. i know i don't sound scottish.

Yes you do. Not broad, but certainly noticable.

[Io]

MisterBernie, can you please record yourself saying something in your native dialect?

[King of My Own Niche]

1. Where were you born? Portland, Oregon, USA. Raised in Sioux City, Iowa and Bluecreek, WA
2. What is your native language? English
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? Learning Japanese
4. How old are you? 17
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? Probably as soon as I stopped screaming
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) Naturalistically
7. How long have you lived in an english-speaking country? Which country? 17 years, USA

Stella

I tend to project in formal readings like that, so that' my Iowan (Newscaster) accent.
Something a bit more natural to show off my current Pacific Northwest.

Transcript:
Well, I live in Bluecreek, Washington, but our mailing address is for Chewelah 'cause that's where the nearest post office is. You see, Bluecreek is the outskirts of the middle of nowhere, if that makes any sense at all. Y'see, Colville, where I go to school, is the middle of nowhere. Chewelah is on the outskirts of the middle of nowhere, and Bluecreek is on the outskirts of Chewelah, so you can just imagine where Bluecreek is in all this. And I don't even live in Bluecreek proper, if you can call it proper at all, it's just Stanley Loop and the gas station and that's about it. We technically live up on Dry Creek Road, about three miles up from Bluecreek.

[Jipí]

MisterBernie, can you please record yourself saying something in your native dialect?

Yeah, he sounded very neutral at least in the Stella recordings. I didn't listen to the Grundgesetz ones.

[Radius Solis]

Transcript:

Wow, that's way out in BFE. Beautiful countryside though!

[MisterBernie]

What I did on Thursday
It's a bit long, but I was hoping to get myself to start speaking naturally. Alas, I don't speak an actual dialect, only Bavarian-influenced Standard.

Here's a transcription in semi-Standard German, with most disfluencies removed. The sentence breaks are a bit randomly put for readability, I tend to ramble on:

"Also gestern früh bin ich um, also, gegen zwei in der Früh aufgewacht, und, ja, ich weiß nicht wirklich, warum, aber es war nicht so schlimm, ich hätte spätestens um halb fünf aufstehen müssen, weil ich zum Zug hätt müssen, der um halb acht gefahren wäre. Dann hab ich wenigstens genug Zeit gehabt, um meinen ganzen Morgenscheiß zu erledigen, Kaffee trinken, Internet surfen, Facebook alles nochmal schnell abchecken.
Und, äh, bin ich dann um fünf fünzig zur S-Bahn gelaufen mit meinem ganzen Sch...marren. Dann erstmal kam die S-Bahn zu spät, weil auf der ersten Streckenhälfte sind Gleisschäden gewesen, wegen dem Unwetter. Ja, und dann sind wir noch ewig auf der Strecke gestanden... bis ich dann endlich, endlich am Hauptbahnhof war, wars eh noch genügend Zeit, dass ich - glaub ich - fünf oder sechs Zigaretten¹ kettenrauchen konnte.
Und dann geh ich langsam zu meinem Gleis, und ja, dann hatte der Zug erstmal ne Stunde Verspätung, ist noch gar nicht angekommen gewesen, und dann hieß es irgendwann dann doch 'Ja, Zug fällt aus', weil zwischen Traunstein und Salzburg oder so war die Strecke gesperrt, ebenfalls wegen dem Unwetter.
Ja, dann gabs irgendwie eine Umleitung, dass ich nach Plattling hätte rausfahren können, wo auch immer das ist, und von dort dann um zehn mit dem ICE nach Wien fahren, dann hieß es aber schon der Zug ist wahrscheinlich schon überfüllt, und der nächste planmäßige von München aus wär um neun Uhr siebenundzwanzig, aber es war - bis dahin sollte die Strecke wieder offen sein, und hatte ich ehrlich gesagt keinen Bock, dass ich zwei Stunden am Hauptbahnhof warte, damit ich vielleicht noch nach Wien komme, und dann hab ich mich angestellt zum - so ne komische Reklamationsformularantrag-schieß-mich-tot bekomme₂, und dann mich entschieden, ich lass die Familienfeier sausen, bin wieder nach Hause gefahren, und ja, das war mein großes Abenteuer gestern."


1 The danger of recording, normally, I use "Kippe" for "Zigarette".
2 Yeah, I got lost in my syntax there.

[finlay]

yes. i know i don't sound scottish.

Yes you do. Not broad, but certainly noticable.

I like to preempt the inevitable; those who notice it, like you, are definitely in the minority. Mind you, I haven't been talking to that many linguists recently.

I think most people expect a broad and/or Glaswegian accent, so they then think that I don't have a Scottish accent when they hear my non-broad Edinburgh accent. So it tends to be just people that actually have a clue about accents that notice...

[Yng]

I think most people expect a broad and/or Glaswegian accent, so they then think that I don't have a Scottish accent when they hear my non-broad Edinburgh accent. So it tends to be just people that actually have a clue about accents that notice...

Ahh. Yeah, that would explain it. You sound pretty typical middle-class Edinburgh to me, although it isn't particularly pronounced - but then IIRC you've been living outside of Scotland for ages, right? So.

[Davoush]

1. Where were you born? Liverpool
2. What is your native language? English
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? Chinese, Arabic
4. How old are you? 22
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? 0
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) Naturally
7. How long have you lived in an english-speaking country? Which country? Since I was born apart from 2 years

Stella text: http://vocaroo.com/?media=vhQqBljPQHpSDSBLl

I think it's obvious I'm from Liverpool...but my accent isn't as strong as other people around here.

Finlay, I think I would have guessed you were Scottish after a while, although it wouldn't be immediately recognisable to me.

[kelemta]

1. Where were you born? Australia
2. What is your native language? English
3. What other languages besides English and your native language do you know? (intermediate) Indonesian, Japanese, Mandarin
4. How old are you? 19
5. How old were you when you first began to study English? 0
6. How did you learn English? (academically or naturalistically) naturally
7. How long have you lived in an english-speaking country? Which country? All my life in Australia

Stella

[finlay]

I think most people expect a broad and/or Glaswegian accent, so they then think that I don't have a Scottish accent when they hear my non-broad Edinburgh accent. So it tends to be just people that actually have a clue about accents that notice...

Ahh. Yeah, that would explain it. You sound pretty typical middle-class Edinburgh to me, although it isn't particularly pronounced - but then IIRC you've been living outside of Scotland for ages, right? So.

Right... it was a middle-class Edinburgh accent to begin with, watered down further with 5 years of living mostly in England. I do tend to also accommodate to some extent when talking to people from different places.

Finlay, I think I would have guessed you were Scottish after a while, although it wouldn't be immediately recognisable to me.

That's the other thing I've heard – people are surprised when I tell them where I'm from but when they actually start listening to the accent they can tell. Confirmation bias perhaps.