Post your conlang's phonology

[finlay]

(I tend to overreact to being treated like I'm stupid too, as evidenced by me responding angrily all-in-IPA to someone correcting a typo I made on reddit a couple days ago.)

Ooh, I wanna see.

[Risla]

I'd get the link but the conversation in question irritated me enough that I don't want to go find it and get annoyed at it again.

Unrelatedly, I've been here for over four years now and people still regularly think I'm a guy, so...

[Nortaneous]

Dicking around with a thing that might become a new Hathic lang. Probably most closely related to Kanagy, except without the plosive shift.

/p t k (ʔ)/ <p t k>
/b~m d~n g~ŋ/ <b~m d~n g~ng>
/ʋ s~tʃ ʒ~dʒ x~ɣ h/ <v s~c zh~z ch h>
/r ð̞ j/ <r l ll>
/a e ə i ɨ u ã ɨ̃ õ/ <a ė e i ı u ą į ǫ>
Allophony from this.

Name would probably be Gallezh or something along those general lines, although I don't particularly like that so I'll probably change it.

Bonus points to anyone who can name the natlangs that I stole bits from here.

[Bristel]

Dicking around with a thing that might become a new Hathic lang. Probably most closely related to Kanagy, except without the plosive shift.

/p t k (ʔ)/ <p t k>
/b~m d~n g~ŋ/ <b~m d~n g~ng>
/ʋ s~tʃ ʒ~dʒ x~ɣ h/ <v s~c zh~z ch h>
/r ð̞ j/ <r l ll>
/a e ə i ɨ u ã ɨ̃ õ/ <a ė e i ı u ą į ǫ>
Allophony from this.

Name would probably be Gallezh or something along those general lines, although I don't particularly like that so I'll probably change it.

Bonus points to anyone who can name the natlangs that I stole bits from here.

Breton?

I was just reminded of "Brezh" (Breton).

[Nortaneous]

Yeah, that's one, although the final <zh> is there because the name comes straight from *gædʲæjə. ə drops and j hardens, as they both generally do in Hathic langs (cf. Kanagy /kɑdnɑgʲ/, Kastas /kɐstɐs/)

[Bristel]

I'm surprised that I answered correctly. I was only going by the word "Gallezh". Thinking that it looked like "Gallois" and "Brezh". lol

[finlay]

I'm not

(I still think you're kidding yourself if you think [ð̞] and [ɹ] are truly different, though. Sure, it could be a bunched R, but you don't have to use it for that)

[roninbodhisattva]

Little something I threw together earlier. It's similar to a phonology I've been working on for a bit:



The prenasalized clusters there can also occur word initially. Haven't decided whether they'd end up being syllabic nasals or actual prenasalized stops. Also, you can get /t k n m/ and maybe /ts/ or /s/. Some other stuff might get allowed in verb imperatives. Medial clusters and word final codas can't follow falling diphthongs except for /ai/, in which case it's [əi].

(I still think you're kidding yourself if you think [ð̞] and [ɹ] are truly different, though. Sure, it could be a bunched R, but you don't have to use it for that)

Well, [ð̞] has a different place of articulation and isn't rhotic. So I'm pretty sure they're not the same. I might be jumping in on something I missed here, though, I don't know.

[Nortaneous]

non-rhotic, interdental, and strictly conventional IPA is nowhere as useful as the flavor of IPA that's commonly used in practice anyway so

[finlay]

Little something I threw together earlier. It's similar to a phonology I've been working on for a bit:



The prenasalized clusters there can also occur word initially. Haven't decided whether they'd end up being syllabic nasals or actual prenasalized stops. Also, you can get /t k n m/ and maybe /ts/ or /s/. Some other stuff might get allowed in verb imperatives. Medial clusters and word final codas can't follow falling diphthongs except for /ai/, in which case it's [əi].

(I still think you're kidding yourself if you think [ð̞] and [ɹ] are truly different, though. Sure, it could be a bunched R, but you don't have to use it for that)

Well, [ð̞] has a different place of articulation and isn't rhotic. So I'm pretty sure they're not the same. I might be jumping in on something I missed here, though, I don't know.

Tell me what rhotic means, then. Seriously, I'd like to know. The only definition we were able to come up with in a phonetics class is that it's a set of """R sounds""" that are defined by not being other kinds of sounds, pretty much, and possibly that it's more defined by orthography and history and correspondance with other languages' R sounds. It's possible that there's some kind of formant process, but I'm not convinced.

Also [ɹ] is not "alveolar" – notice how it can be any of three columns on the IPA.

[Xados]

b /b/

Code: Select all

l /ɫ/ r /ɦ/ zz /f/
c /c/ lc /tɬ/ ] rr /ʀ~ɦ/
cc /tʃ/ lj /dɮ/ ] s /s/
d /ɾ/ ll /ʟ/ sh /ʃ/
g /g/ ls /ɬ/ t /t/
gh /ɣ/ lx /ɮ/ v /ð/
h/ʔ/ m /m/ vv /v/
j/ɟ/ n /n/ w /ɱ/
jj /ʤ/ ng /ŋ/ x /z/
k/k/ p /p/ xh /ʒ/
q /x/ z /θ/

semivowels

f y yy
vowel /aʊ/ /aj/ /uj/
consonanr /w/ /j/ /ɥ/

vowels

a e i o ö u ü
short a ɛ ɪ ɔ ɤ ʌ ʏ
long æ e i o ø u y

all vowels can become schwa- ' seperates digraphs

[forget it -just focus on them until i can fix this]
so what do yall think?

[finlay]

zz /f/

Also, you need to organise it a bit better. For one, if you have a table defined by spacing (as you do), plonk it between

Code: Select all

 tags.

Try and put it in the same order as the IPA, and in rows rather than columns.

[Xados]

look i don't have the time to use an ipa chart- just deal with this [now edited] and give an honest opinion

oh yeah-zz is supposed to be f

[Astraios]

look i don't have the time to use an ipa chart- just deal with this [now edited] and give an honest opinion

Wow, no need to be rude. I think you'll find he did give an honest opinion.

[finlay]

My honest opinion? Well, apart from the fact that it's badly organised (and fuck off, you've used the IPA, so you clearly have an idea of how it works), you have fucking weird sound--grapheme correspondences (zz=/f/ is unheard of and stupid, and <f> used as a vowel is even stupider), an overpreponderence of laterals, and that whole <u> for /ʌ/ thing which comes across, quite frankly, as noobish.

As for your table, you seem to have organised it in some sort of order but because you haven't put it between CODE tags, the board ignores this. And as for the IPA order, it's just because we don't have the time or inclination to sift through things.

Sarcastic answer begets sarcastic answer.

[Xados]

look i don't have the time to use an ipa chart- just deal with this [now edited] and give an honest opinion

Wow, no need to be rude. I think you'll find he did give an honest opinion.

to be fair i meant say in the same tone you use when relaxed-my bad

[Astraios]

to be fair i meant say in the same tone you use when relaxed-my bad

... Elaborate.

[Xados]

My honest opinion? Well, apart from the fact that it's badly organised (and fuck off, you've used the IPA, so you clearly have an idea of how it works), you have fucking weird sound--grapheme correspondences (zz=/f/ is unheard of and stupid, and <f> used as a vowel is even stupider), an overpreponderence of laterals, and that whole <u> for /ʌ/ thing which comes across, quite frankly, as noobish.

As for your table, you seem to have organised it in some sort of order but because you haven't put it between CODE tags, the board ignores this. And as for the IPA order, it's just because we don't have the time or inclination to sift through things.

Sarcastic answer begets sarcastic answer.

this based on how i slur my words[noticed the lack of rough sounds, everything related to 'g' or 'r' is supposed to be for names]. f as w is from digamma and z was from an old prononciation of zeta hence zz equals f.

if you wonder why it's like that it's betcause my speech is very similar that- the graph is my fault okay i'll fix it when i have the time .

[Xados]

to be fair i meant say in the same tone you use when relaxed-my bad

... Elaborate.

i'm serious

[finlay]

to be fair i meant say in the same tone you use when relaxed-my bad

... Elaborate.

i'm serious

no, he means, "you're making absolutely no sense there; explain what the hell you meant"

Anyway, consonant inventory in rows...

Code: Select all

p b         t   tʃ dʒ tɬ dɮ c ɟ k g     ʔ
  m   ɱ       n                   ŋ
    f v θ ð s z  ʃ  ʒ  ɬ  ɮ     x ɣ   ʀ   ɦ
  w           ɾ     ɥ     ɫ   j   ʟ

basically i think you should get rid of ɱ and ʟ, because they're not really ever used as phonemes in RL languages, and probably also of either f v or θ ð. You have enough laterals that i've considered them a separate POA, which is actually interesting, however. The only other sound i'm not sure about is ʀ, but you've said it varies with ɦ anyway.

It's more your orthography that i have some concerns with – it's just confusing, dude, if people use letters to mean different sounds from what they normally would. Please don't use Greek orthographical standards in a latin orthography, that's about as confusing as you can get.

[Astraios]

no, he means, "you're making absolutely no sense there; explain what the hell you meant"

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[MisterBernie]

Do you mean theta? If you wanna use fita, then go ahead and use Ѳ.

As it is, your orthography is, politely put, highly counterintuitive, in particular, but not limited to, <q> for /x/, <x> for /z/ and <z> for /θ/.
And of course <zz> for /f/. And... everything else except for <b, c, g, , m, n, j, ng, g, p>.
Reboot universe alphabet.

[finlay]

As it is, your orthography is, politely put, highly counterintuitive, in particular, but not limited to, <q> for /x/, <x> for /z/ and <z> for /θ/.

I don't actually mind these particular ones so much, since <z> has been used for /θ/ in a natlang and <x> and <q> are somewhat wildcards. But with that in mind, <x>=/x/ and <z>=/z/ are less confusing.

Note that I can only look at your phonology and tell at a glance that it's actually fairly balanced and not completely ridiculous when I look at it in rows.

[MisterBernie]

As it is, your orthography is, politely put, highly counterintuitive, in particular, but not limited to, <q> for /x/, <x> for /z/ and <z> for /θ/.

I don't actually mind these particular ones so much, since <z> has been used for /θ/ in a natlang and <x> and <q> are somewhat wildcards. But with that in mind, <x>=/x/ and <z>=/z/ are less confusing.

Oh right, Spanish... but in this particular combination, it still doesn't work for me. <x> = /x/, <z> = /z/, <q> = /θ/, eh, why not, but this shift is strange.

[finlay]

This would be my preferred orthography, but only if you don't want diacritics (yet you have used diacritics on the vowels):

(phonemic)

Code: Select all

p b         t   tʃ dʒ tɬ dɮ c ɟ k g     ʔ
  m   ɱ       n                   ŋ
    f v θ ð s z  ʃ  ʒ  ɬ  ɮ     x ɣ   ʀ   ɦ
  w           ɾ     ɥ     ɫ   j   ʟ

(orthographic)

Code: Select all

p b           t   ch jh tl dl c j k  g     q
  m   ?         n                    ng
    f v th dh s z sh zh ls lz     kh gh r    h
  u             d     ü    l    i     ?

I'm not sure about th/dh, to be honest, and you could replace q with x. I've put question marks for ɱ and ʟ because a) I think you should take them out and b) I don't know of a good way of doing them*. I've given the semivowels vowel letters because I think you should consider them equivalents of the vowels /u/, /y/ and /i/ rather than the diphthongs you gave. Just give digraph spellings to the diphthongs. Another way of doing it would be w for /w/, ÿ for /ɥ/, and y for /j/. I don't honestly know a better way of doing /ɥ/ – I don't think yy works very well.

But note that I've kept in a couple of things, particularly <ls> for /ɬ/, which I liked, and <d> for /ɾ/. Because I changed <x> to <z>, I changed <lx> to <lz> too (similarly, <xh> → <zh>). I wasn't too sure about <lc> and <lj> though. I mean they're kind of inventive I guess, but I think <tl> works better and is simpler. I put <kh> for /x/ to be consistent with <gh> for /ɣ/, and I think <ch> and <jh> for /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ meshes better with <sh zh> for /ʃ ʒ/, although double letters <cc jj> aren't too bad for this.

*<ll> isn't bad though. I don't think <w> for /ɱ/ is a good idea. The best I can come up with is something like <ṁ>..

Oh yeah, and about your vowels, not too bad (I quite like the correspondence between short /ɤ/ and long /ø/), but how do you tell if it's short, long, or reduced to schwa? (Actually, I think you probably too many vowels to also reduce everything to schwa)