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zompist bboard • View topic - Determiner Issues, Grammar & Lexical Suffixes

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:29 pm 
Lebom
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:14 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:49 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:28 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:02 am 
Avisaru
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Last edited by TomHChappell on Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:07 am 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:50 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:10 am 
Lebom
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So I'm currently tooling around with the Tense system and I've decided I wanted a fairly minimal system. I was originally going to use a Past/Non-Past Distinction. I'm still debating on doing it that way or having a Non-Remembered Past Tense for all those things which took place before my subjective recollection and Remembered Past Tense for all those things which happened during my life.

Well that was the plan anyway, until I thought of the murkiness that would bring to the language. If something happened in the last year let's say, but I didn't see it happen, would I retell the action in the remembered or the non-remembered past tense? And as one gets older the window for the remembered past tense would shrink.

So perhaps I'll have it based on lifetime. I don't know what to do really. This is sort of just rambling, but it helps to just type it out. And while this post probably belongs on the C&C Quickies section I figured it could just hop onto my current thread since it pertains to the same language and structure. Anyway, I'm thinking I'll be using relative tense, but how I'll implement it exactly seems to be the problem.

Anyway... end rant.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:17 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:33 pm 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:37 pm 
Lebom
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Alright, so I've tweaked the structure yet again, in order to accommodate easier speaking and understanding. Below is the new template, just a slightly altered form of the last.

[Mood/Evidentiality][Tense][Aspect][Polypersonal Marking][Noun Stem][Classificatory Marking][Verb Root][Derivational Suffixes]

So, I've shifted to a more predominantly suffixing structure than before. The only suffixes are those which are derivational. Initially the mood/evidentiality markers indicate the reality and epistemic qualities of the act. Tense is separate from aspect being marked with a simple past marker or a non-past null-inflection. The aspect prefixes (which differ in type and number depending on whether the verb root is considered to be stative, active, locomotional/locative. Polypersonal marking I think is important to indicate the roles of those involved. There is a hierarchy in which the markers are displayed as well depending on their inherent relative importance to the speaker thus: 1st person < 2nd person < 3rd persons & immediate and proximal deictics < 4th persons & distal, imperceptive and restricted deictics. These are just the markers indicating the participants involved, there would be no need for me to say, indicate their grammatical case into the polypersonal markers would there? I figure I could leave that to the inflection on the noun itself.

The Noun Stem of course is that of the incorporated noun if it applies at all it's uninflected. The only thing that still confuses me, even after all TomHChappell's patience is that since I conjugate my nouns for agency and patiency, specifically volitional agent, general agent and [b]patient[b] and since Leþwin is a Fluid-S type of Active language, the speaker decides where to assign the volitional agent, general agent or patient. So with all this flexibility and without any inflection on the incorporated noun, how does the incorporated noun with the verb root indicate lets say an volitional agentive construction versus a general agentive or patientive construction? All notions of patiency or agency would be connotative instead of denotative right?

Anyway, besides my misconceptions and issues with noun incorporation...

We come to classificatory marking, which is used only in instances where the animacy, shape, consistency or abstract/concrete nature matter in handing the nouns involved in the act/state/process/movement. This is intimately tied into the verb root, typically with a high amount of mutation of initial consonants (if the verb root has a consonantal onset). This obfuscates the division between root and class marker. Essentially Leþwini speakers view (let's say) holding a rope as a distinctly different act then holding a baby, and thus the intimate combination of class and verb root reflect that. As was mentioned though this occurs typically in verbs of motion, handling, throwing, catching, location, and for the abstract classes, in cases where the subjective or objective nature of the nouns involved matters.

Lastly, suffixed to the verb root, any derivational morphology. This includes everything from simple derivational morphology to lexemic suffixes.

More details to still be worked out but I am happy with the shape of the template.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:35 pm 
Avisaru
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I read your last post and want to respond to it but I'm running out of time so it will have to be tomorrow afternoon at the earliest.
I will say I like a lot of it.


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