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 Post subject: Re: Baranxeï
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:19 pm 
Smeric
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I like it a lot, seems to be a bit like Hindi to me... Especially with the sandhi.

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 Post subject: Re: Baranxeï
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:28 pm 
Avisaru
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 Post subject: Re: Baranxeï
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:07 am 
Smeric
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[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró


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 Post subject: Re: Baranxeï
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:54 am 
Avisaru
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Interrogative Pronouns

Standard Baranxe'i has two families of interrogative pronouns, the r-stems and the iś-stems.

The r-stems are the older group, but dropped out of common use in the late Middle Baranxe'i stage. The change originated in the Central dialects and subsequently spread outwards. Today, the r-stems are only used in Religious Baranxe'i and in Baranxe'i legalese and have been completely supplanted by the iś-stems in all dialects and all colloquial forms of Standard Baranxe'i.



While these do not have clitic forms, if they act as determiners, they follow regular stress rules, but as pro-forms, they carry stress on the ultimate sillable.
ikśin alē’in varānet? - Religious Baranxe’i: rēnin alēn varaunīt?
[↗ ˈiːkʃɪn ɑˈlɛːʔɪn ˈβɑːrɒnət] - [↗ ˈrɛːnɪn ˈɑːlɛ̆n βɑˈrɒʊ̆nʏt]
Which man did you see?

ikśīn varānet?
[↗ iˈkʃyːn ˈβɑːrɒnət]
Whom did you see?

ikśā iśvun iśma iśtru iśin atmanes? - Legalese rēnā rēnun reim reþã reins atmanes?
[↗ iˈkʃɒː iʃˈβuːn iʃˈmɑː iʃˈtɾuː iˈʃiːn ɑtˈmɑːnəs] - [↗ ɾɛˈnɒː rɛˈnuːn reɪm reˈθɑ̃ː reɪɲs atˈmɑːnəs]
Who does what when where how?

---

Relative Pronouns

A relative clause construction in Baranxe'i involves a two-pronoun system: þinā ha’inā
The proximal demonstrative þinā in this case follows the head as a regular adjective, whereas ha’inā introduces the actual relative clause. þinā thus completely agrees with the head in the main clause, whereas ha’inā only agrees in gender and number with the head in the main clause, but it takes the case needed in the relative clause.

If the head has the same case in both the main and the relative clause, þinā can be dropped.
alē’i [þini] ha’ini þaðú varānesdan hēðú varānesmat
man-M [PROX-M] REL-M DIST-day-ADV see-PST-ANIM-3.SG.ABSENT-you.ACC PROX-day-ADV see-PST-ANIM-3.SG.ABSENT-I.OBL
The man who saw you yesterday saw me today.

alē’in [þinin] ha’inin þaðú varānet hēðú varānem
man-M-ACC [PROX-M-ACC] REL-M-ACC DIST-day-ADV see-PST-ANIM-2.SG PROX-day-ADV see-PST-ANIM-1.SG
I saw the man whom you saw yesterday today.

alē’in þinin ha’ini þaðú varānesdan hēðú varānem
man-M-ACC PROX-M-ACC REL-M DIST-day-ADV see-PST-ANIM-3.SG.ABSENT-you.ACC PROX-day-ADV see-PST-ANIM-1.SG
I saw the man who saw you yesterday today.

(If I ever get around to do Future Baranxe'i, this will be one of the sources for a definite-indefinite distinction.)

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 Post subject: Re: Baranxeï
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:42 pm 
Avisaru
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This lang is full of WIN! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Baranxeï
PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:59 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:18 pm 
Avisaru
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How did the passive vs. active distinction develop in the personal endings?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:44 pm 
Avisaru
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It was the original way of marking active/passive; the double marking evolved the same way as that of the subjunctive (so older varempa > modern varkempa via participle varkane).

If you mean how the exact form of the endings evolved... well, to be honest, I'm still working on that. The subjunctive passive endings and the 3.SG.ABSENT in the indicative passive, however, are the result of a further 'k creep' from the stem passive marker k into the passive endings.
I have to work out if the current theory for the 1/2/3present-endings actual works, which is that they represent the original endings with that actual passive marker being -ā́H - the H got lost, the -ā́- shortened and lost its stress, but the secondary stress preserved the strong endings which were weakened in all other forms:
várempə > váremp > várem
váretcə > váret(c) > váret
várempjə > váremd(ə) > várend !> váremja > váreña (analogy drives out the inherited form varenda)
BUT
várempā̀H > várempa (> várkempa)
váretcā̀H > váretsa (> várketsa)
várempja’ā̀H > váremdā̀H > várenda > *várendja > várenða (> várkenða)

(ETA: The sound change in the 1.PL is *mpj > nd; other *pj > f)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:25 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:43 pm 
Avisaru
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Negation

Negation in Baranxe’i uses the construction a’i X mē.
Phonologically, a’i is a separate word [ˈɑ(ː)ʔɪ], whereas mē is usually a clitic [mɛ], unless the negation is stressed. This stress is not marked in writing, however.

A’i tāranemzan mē.
NEG hit-PST-C-1SG=3SG.ABSENT.ACC NEG

[ˈɑːʔɪ ˈtɒːɾanəmzanmɛ]
I didn’t hit her.

[ˈɑːʔɪ ˈtɒːɾanəmzanˈmɛː]
I did not hit her.

---

As a default, it is the verb that is negated:
Uði Baranxiźu a’i þajalānem mē.
[ˈuːðɪ ˈbɑːranxiʒɯ ˈɑːʔɪ ˈθɑːjalɒnəmːɛ]
I didn’t go to Baranxiź.

A’i āraþe mē mismaf xõ.
[ˈɑːʔɪ ˈɒːraθəmɛ ˈmiːsmɑɸ xõ]
Don’t dance in the rice field.

A’i taiþem mē ēþ somas-mautanzi śanihþus hīvarānīh.
[ˈɑːʔɪ ˈtɑɪ̯θəmːɛ ɛːθ ˈsoːmasˈmɑʊ̯tanzɪ ˈʃɑːnixθɯs ˈhyːβarɒnix]
I don’t think he killed his mother-in-law with a hatchet.

Taiþem ēþ somas-mautanzi śanihþus a’i hīvarānīh mē.
[ˈtɑɪ̯θəm ɛːθ ˈsoːmasˈmɑʊ̯tanzɪ ˈʃɑːnixθɯs ˈɑːʔɪ ˈhyːβarɒnixmɛ]
I think he didn't kill his mother-in-law with a hatchet (but maybe he was the one who chopped her body up).

---

Other parts of speech can be negated with the same structure. In this case, the whole NP has to be negated, not only the head noun:
A’i uði Baranxiźu mē þajalānem (rausa uði Kītīlē).
[ˈɑːʔɪ ˈuːðɪ ˈbɑːranxiʒumɛ ˈθɑːjalɒnəm]
I didn’t go to Baranxiź (but to Kītīlē).

Āraþē a’i mismaf xõ (rausa ilēkmaf xõ).
[ˈɒːraθə ˈɑːʔɪ ˈmiːsmɑɸ xõ mɛ]
Don’t dance in the rice field (but in the wheat field).

Taiþem ēþ somas-mautanzi a’i śanihþus mē hīvarānīh (rausa laipdīsar).
[ˈtɑɪ̯θəm ɛːθ ˈsoːmasˈmɑʊ̯tanzɪ ˈɑːʔɪ ˈʃɑːnixθɯsmɛ ˈhyːβarɒnix]
I think he didn't kill his mother-in-law with a hatchet (but by strangulation).

------

Negative derivation

mē also forms the basis of negative derivation in Baranxe'i; as a derivative affix it prefixes the negated part of speech; however, this is barely productive anymore most existing examples are inherited terms (such as, mevrēnā unseen, hidden from pre-Old Baranxe'i mē-bʰr̩̄́jāine being made unseen) or are educated formations (such as, mēda'inanā inanimate (in linguistics)).

mē also combines directly with bound morphemes to form negative determiners:
mē- + -ēn > mējēn nobody, mējun nothing
mē- + -ku > mēku nothing
mē- + -þu > mēþu nothing (no tool/instrument)
mē- + -īr > mēvīr nothing (no action)
also
mē- + -sau > mēsau never
mē- + þa + -x > mēþax nowhere (NEG-place-ADPOS.PL)

---

More productively, adjectives use -nim- to indicate lack or opposite quality. It is related to nimva lack, need sth. and nīma remove.
raŋnimā colour-lack-ADJ colourless
kānēnimā pretty-lack-ADJ plain-looking, homely, uncomely
maŋþnimā kind-lack-ADJ unkind

These can be subjected to further regular derivation processes:
raŋnimā > raŋnimul colourlessness, lack of colour
kānēnimi or kānēnimin unattractive man
maŋþnim(s/v)ajata > to make so. be/become unkind
The variation between s and v is due to the co-existance of the inherited verb nimva to lack and the productive verbaliser -s-. There's a similar co-existance of adjectives being zero-derived into nouns, or taking the agent suffix -ēn.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:56 pm 
Sanci
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Very cool conlang you have here. Just this second page has been an interesting read; I look forward to what awaits me on page 1. Good job.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:15 am 
Sanno
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Pretty rare that I say this, but: that's some pretty awesome conlanging going on there. I'm loving the vaguely-but-not-too Indo-Europeanish feel you've got going on there, and I particularly like the verbal system.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:21 pm 
Smeric
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So pretty and awesome that I don't have enough time for it. XD

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:41 pm 
Avisaru
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<3<3<3 :D !
My soul feels petted now :)

And so it's on to
Causatives

This is an area where my descriptive talents fail me a bit, so tell me if it doesn't make any sense.

Baranxe'i technically has two causative systems; and older, inherited and unproductive one featuring vowel augmentation and a productive one with the suffix -Vjat- (that is, it's -ijat- if the last vowel in the stem is a front vowel, and -ajat- if it's a back vowel).
The causative increases the valency of a verb by 1, thus turning intransitive verbs into transitive ones and enabling the latter to take a double accusative. In its semantic function, it covers both direct action and coercion - the former is the fundamental meaning of causatives derived from adjectives.

--
rāta to stand up (itself originally a causative to rata stand which shifted to exclusively reflexive, that is, to make oneself stand)
> rātajata to make stand up; to erect, build

vrēna to wake up
> vrenējata to wake so. up

---

Adjectives can take the verbaliser -s- (Baranxe'i is in the middle of a shift away from using the copula at all), leaving a choice between deriving the causative directly from the adjective or from the verb.

źīlā pale
> źīlijata or źīlsijata
"to make pale" to bleach

iśñā long
> iśñijata or iśañsijata
to stretch, make long


With some, however, there is a semantic difference between the two forms. This differentiation is idiomatic and thus rather unpredictable, though:

śātrā healthy
> śātarsa to be/become healthy
>> śātarsajata to be healthy for so
> śatra to heal
>> śatrajata to heal sth/so

So:
Śātarset iś? (for Hat iś śātrī?)
healthy-VBLZ-C-2SG Q (be-2SG Q healthy-C)
Are you healthy (again)? (Are you healthy?)

Bastu śātarsajatoðan.
milk•N healthy-VBLZ-CAUS-N=2SG.ACC
Milk is healthy for you.

Śatro iś dauðu?
heal-N Q leg=2SG.GEN
Is your leg healing?

Aumanata daunzi śatrajatānas.
old-HON-F leg-ACC=3SG.C.ABS.GEN heal-CAUS-PST-F-ABS
The wise woman healed his leg.

---

For verbs which get a second direct object, word order becomes highly important to contain the correct meaning:
SOO(O)V
(if someone can give me a nicer notation for that, I'd be thankful)

To illustrate:
juŋa give (trivalent verb)
Ruvũr īnar juŋem.
money<ACC> woman-F-DAT give-C-1SG
I give money to the woman.

Alē’in ruvũr īnar juŋajatem.
man-M-ACC money<ACC> woman-F-DAT give-CAUS-C-1SG
I make the man give money to the woman.
--
kaŋra bite (divalent verb)
Vuli alē’in kaŋris.
dog-M man-M-ACC bite-M-ABS
The dog bites the man.

Alē’i vulin alē’in kaŋrajatis.
man-M dog-M-ACC man-M-ACC bite-CAUS-M-ABS
The man makes the dog bite the man.

Alē’i alē’in vulin kaŋgrajatis.
man-M man-M-ACC dog-M-ACC bite-CAUS-M-ABS
The man makes the man bite the dog.

---

Causatives can be stacked, as well:
Alē’in īnan ruvũr sundźir juŋajatajatānem.
man-m-ACC woman-F-ACC money<ACC> child-M-DAT give-CAUS-CAUS-PST-C-SG
I made the man make the woman give money to the boy.

Aumanatin daunðu śatrajatajatānem.
old-HON-M-ACC leg-ACC=2SG.GEN heal-CAUS-CAUS-PST-C-1SG
I made the wise man heal your leg.

In theory, there is no limit to this, but in practice, it loses its usefulness after two or three.

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