Actually, this is one of those things that have always seemed pretty weird to me about Spanish... The traditional way to transcribe ‹ñ›, ‹ch› and non-lenited consonant ‹y› are [ɲ], [t͡ʃ] and [ɟ͡ʝ] respectively. John Lipski, at least, says that my dialect has [d͡ʒ] for non-lenited consonant ‹y›, so supposedly I end up with [ɲ], [t͡ʃ] and [d͡ʒ] for my dialect.Drydic Guy wrote:This and the palatal stop don't bother me near as much, given there are languages like Spanish/French/Italian, which have one or two palatals with no others in that row/column.
But the thing is, I'd swear I pronounce them in the same place of articulation. Dunno whether to call them "postalveolar" (so [n̠], [t͡ʃ] and [d͡ʒ]) or "palatal" (so [ɲ], [c͡ç] and [ɟ͡ʝ]) though. And dunno whether it even really matters that much, because the mouth is so mushy anyway and there isn't a clear division between the two. Maybe the ones who started the tradition of transcribing them as [ɲ], [t͡ʃ] and [ɟ͡ʝ] thought "[c͡ç]" looked too ugly or something?
Have any of you guys here heard/seen any criticism of the traditional way of transcribing these three? What do other native Spanish speakers on the forum say? If tradition says your dialect has [ɲ], [t͡ʃ] and [ɟ͡ʝ] (Izo?), is your ‹ch› truly pronounced more towards the front than ‹ñ› and non-lenited consonant ‹y›?