Odd natlang features thread
Re: Odd natlang features thread
Does Navajo's verbal system from Hell count as an 'odd feature'?
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Isn't Navajo one of the saner Athabaskan languages?Theta wrote:Does Navajo's verbal system from Hell count as an 'odd feature'?
Try the online version of the HaSC sound change applier: http://chrisdb.dyndns-at-home.com/HaSC
Re: Odd natlang features thread
NO! The google books preview cuts out just before getting into the meat of the evidentiality system! I've been looking for a really good analysis of a natlang evidentiality system for a while. Bother. I must go to the University to find this. Also a tremendously good grammar, well organized and filled with details. It's obvious there's a tremendous amount of work.Atom wrote:Ah! Thank you.Whimemsz wrote:Basically just this, as far as I know
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Both Dixon and Aikhenvald (who work together a lot) do tend to write good grammars. I can also recommend Aikhenvald's grammar of Manambu (an Ndu language) and Dixon's grammar of Jarawara (a Madi language). Jarawara has a simple direct/indirect evidentiality system if you're interested.Atom wrote:NO! The google books preview cuts out just before getting into the meat of the evidentiality system! I've been looking for a really good analysis of a natlang evidentiality system for a while. Bother. I must go to the University to find this. Also a tremendously good grammar, well organized and filled with details. It's obvious there's a tremendous amount of work.Atom wrote:Ah! Thank you.Whimemsz wrote:Basically just this, as far as I know
If you're interested in Evidentiality in particular, have you tried the book "Evidentiality", also by Aikhenvald? It is a typological survey of Evidentiality. She talks about various possible origins, semantic extensions etc. See the Linguist List review here:
http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2547.html
Of course, it's also worth delving into the details of a particular language, to get a better feel for the details.
Try the online version of the HaSC sound change applier: http://chrisdb.dyndns-at-home.com/HaSC
Re: Odd natlang features thread
I haven't looked at that. Thank you.chris_notts wrote:Both Dixon and Aikhenvald (who work together a lot) do tend to write good grammars. I can also recommend Aikhenvald's grammar of Manambu (an Ndu language) and Dixon's grammar of Jarawara (a Madi language). Jarawara has a simple direct/indirect evidentiality system if you're interested.
If you're interested in Evidentiality in particular, have you tried the book "Evidentiality", also by Aikhenvald? It is a typological survey of Evidentiality. She talks about various possible origins, semantic extensions etc. See the Linguist List review here:
http://linguistlist.org/issues/16/16-2547.html
Of course, it's also worth delving into the details of a particular language, to get a better feel for the details.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Phonologically, it looks like Chipewyan (Dëne Sųłiné) is more insane... but I'm probably wrong.chris_notts wrote:Isn't Navajo one of the saner Athabaskan languages?Theta wrote:Does Navajo's verbal system from Hell count as an 'odd feature'?
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
But Chipewyan, going by its name, is Dene-Yeniseian, therefore not applicable =/Bristel wrote:Phonologically, it looks like Chipewyan (Dëne Sųłiné) is more insane... but I'm probably wrong.chris_notts wrote:Isn't Navajo one of the saner Athabaskan languages?Theta wrote:Does Navajo's verbal system from Hell count as an 'odd feature'?
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Darkgamma wrote:But Chipewyan, going by its name, is Dene-Yeniseian, therefore not applicable =/Bristel wrote: Phonologically, it looks like Chipewyan (Dëne Sųłiné) is more insane... but I'm probably wrong.
Go here. Look at the table.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
WTF are you talking about? Athabaskan languages are Dene-Yeniseian. Navajo (Dine Bizaad) and Chipewyan (Dene Suliné) are in the same superfamily.Darkgamma wrote:But Chipewyan, going by its name, is Dene-Yeniseian, therefore not applicable =/Bristel wrote:Phonologically, it looks like Chipewyan (Dëne Sųłiné) is more insane... but I'm probably wrong.chris_notts wrote:Isn't Navajo one of the saner Athabaskan languages?Theta wrote:Does Navajo's verbal system from Hell count as an 'odd feature'?
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Re: Odd natlang features thread
More to the point, Chipewyan is an Athabaskan Dene-Yeniseian language.
"It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be said, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
– The Gospel of Thomas
– The Gospel of Thomas
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Yes, thank you.Xephyr wrote:More to the point, Chipewyan is an Athabaskan Dene-Yeniseian language.
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Re: Odd natlang features thread
Besides which, Dene-Yeniseian isn't proven yet, it's just looked on more favorably than most long-distance comparisons because Vaida isn't a crackpot.
Also, Chipewyan isn't really that strange? Compared to Karajá, whose inventory is ridiculously unbalanced.
Also, Chipewyan isn't really that strange? Compared to Karajá, whose inventory is ridiculously unbalanced.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Laghuu has four lateral affricates, all of which are velar. And it has /ɚ/.
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
We were talking about stranger (more strange) Athabaskan languages, though.Whimemsz wrote:Besides which, Dene-Yeniseian isn't proven yet, it's just looked on more favorably than most long-distance comparisons because Vaida isn't a crackpot.
Also, Chipewyan isn't really that strange? Compared to Karajá, whose inventory is ridiculously unbalanced.
I was comparing Navajo to Chipewyan.
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Re: Odd natlang features thread
It sorta looks like they ripped off Láadan.Solarius wrote:Karajá is pretty insane.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Odd natlang features thread
That looks like an Austro-asiatic analogue to what Semitic has... except that the vowels are part of the root too, and insane sorts of infixation are a matter of course...
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Reading about the insanities of Athabaskan tongues makes me wonder how they ever got to be that way in the first place.
Re: Odd natlang features thread
Simple. To make the chance of a misunderstanding between two individuals as small as possible.Ouagadougou wrote:Reading about the insanities of Athabaskan tongues makes me wonder how they ever got to be that way in the first place.
If I stop posting out of the blue it probably is because my computer and the board won't cooperate and let me log in.!
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
My bad.Bristel wrote: WTF are you talking about? Athabaskan languages are Dene-Yeniseian. Navajo (Dine Bizaad) and Chipewyan (Dene Suliné) are in the same superfamily.
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Sincerely,
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
Might as well bring this back, since we've got its diachronic equivalent going now also.
Allowed final clusters in Qiang are either the same as or a subset of allowed initial clusters, and the only allowed C1s in a cluster (all clusters are two consonants) are /ʂ x χ/. However, /ʂ/ is realized as [s] before /t d/, and as [ɕ] before /pi pe bi tɕ dʑ/, and there's regressive voicing assimilation. So, you can have both xɬi̯ex (xɬi̯exbuʐ 'loess') and tʂʰexɬ 'sip', both ɣlu 'roll' and əɣl 'upright', etc.
edit: Qiang also has rhoticity harmony:
ʀuɑ + kʰe˞ > ʀuɑ˞kʰe˞
me + we˞ > me˞we˞
(Only /i e ə a/ appear with rhoticity in roots, but all vowels can take it, since the first-person plural marker for verbs is -˞.)
Allowed final clusters in Qiang are either the same as or a subset of allowed initial clusters, and the only allowed C1s in a cluster (all clusters are two consonants) are /ʂ x χ/. However, /ʂ/ is realized as [s] before /t d/, and as [ɕ] before /pi pe bi tɕ dʑ/, and there's regressive voicing assimilation. So, you can have both xɬi̯ex (xɬi̯exbuʐ 'loess') and tʂʰexɬ 'sip', both ɣlu 'roll' and əɣl 'upright', etc.
edit: Qiang also has rhoticity harmony:
ʀuɑ + kʰe˞ > ʀuɑ˞kʰe˞
me + we˞ > me˞we˞
(Only /i e ə a/ appear with rhoticity in roots, but all vowels can take it, since the first-person plural marker for verbs is -˞.)
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: Odd natlang features thread
Omaha-Ponca apparently did not get the memo about front ejectiv stops being rarer than back ones; it has an inventory of /pʼ tʼ sʼ ʃʼ xʼ/.
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Re: Odd natlang features thread
where did you get thisNortaneous wrote:Might as well bring this back, since we've got its diachronic equivalent going now also.
Allowed final clusters in Qiang are either the same as or a subset of allowed initial clusters, and the only allowed C1s in a cluster (all clusters are two consonants) are /ʂ x χ/. However, /ʂ/ is realized as [s] before /t d/, and as [ɕ] before /pi pe bi tɕ dʑ/, and there's regressive voicing assimilation. So, you can have both xɬi̯ex (xɬi̯exbuʐ 'loess') and tʂʰexɬ 'sip', both ɣlu 'roll' and əɣl 'upright', etc.
edit: Qiang also has rhoticity harmony:
ʀuɑ + kʰe˞ > ʀuɑ˞kʰe˞
me + we˞ > me˞we˞
(Only /i e ə a/ appear with rhoticity in roots, but all vowels can take it, since the first-person plural marker for verbs is -˞.)
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