Looking for unusual phonemes

[Ars Lande]

All excellent ideas, thanks everyone!

Three levels of velars: front, middle, and back

I will definitely incorporate this one - one language will have a phonemic distinction between front laminal velar and middle peripheral velar.

[MadBrain]

Implosive fricatives?

[Vuvuzela]

Linguolabials. Of any kind.
Lateral nasals. I can produce them pretty easily at least, though they're not attested in any human language.
Epiglotto-pahryngeals

[Ambrisio]

By "lateral nasal" do you mean a nasalized lateral? I have heard retroflex nasalized laterals many times from Indian singers (as in 1:34 in this video). It is a very distinctive sound.

Also, speaking of laterals, is there such a thing as a "lateral vowel"?

[Vuvuzela]

By "lateral nasal" do you mean a nasalized lateral? I have heard retroflex nasalized laterals many times from Indian singers (as in 1:34 in this video). It is a very distinctive sound.

Also, speaking of laterals, is there such a thing as a "lateral vowel"?

Oh, that's what they're called. Yeah, that would explain why I couldn't find them anywhere. In any case, it's a pretty cool sound.
I think "lateral", by definition, implies obstruction of airflow except by the sides of the tongue, and vowels have to have unobstructed airflow after they pass the glottis. Unless there's an alien which can make produce laterals with just it's glottis. I have no idea what that would sound like.

[finlay]

By "lateral nasal" do you mean a nasalized lateral? I have heard retroflex nasalized laterals many times from Indian singers (as in 1:34 in this video). It is a very distinctive sound.

Also, speaking of laterals, is there such a thing as a "lateral vowel"?

No. You could argue that the closest you'll ever get is [l], because you have to have a restriction in the oral tract for a lateral and no restriction for a vowel. It's logically impossiblle.

That said, tongue shape perhaps isn't taken into account enough with our current system of classification, and it's possible to have sounds that don't touch the roof of the mouth but do have more restriction in the middle than the outside; some people I think may have this for their dark L – travis transcribes his as ɰ. I don't think anyone can reliably distinguish these from the opposite, though. And I still wouldn't quite call them lateral vowels.

[Pole, the]

As far as you're using "vowel" as a phonological term, you can surely have a lateral vowel, not being a vocoid though.

[Bob Johnson]

You could argue that the closest you'll ever get is L, because you have to have a restriction in the oral tract for a lateral and no restriction for a vowel. It's logically impossiblle.

Experiment time! Put your tongue in apico-alveolar lateral approximant configuration -- light L -- then say [i e a ɤ ɯ] without moving the tip of your tongue. Throw in [o u] too if you like rounding contrasts.

What is that?

[finlay]

As far as you're using "vowel" as a phonological term, you can surely have a lateral vowel, not being a vocoid though.

sure, it can be the syllable nucleus. but even in phonology we don't normally call this a "vowel".

[ol bofosh]

but even in phonology we don't normally call this a "vowel".

"Normally" I suppose we wouldn't. But then, in some language long lost/not yet invented/not yet evolved there could be a language which uses laterals as vowels. I've done Bob's experiment, and I can say it's possible to make different vowel sounds whilst sticking my tongue to my alveolar ridge. Reminds me of nasal vowels, where the quality of sounds (nasal) is pretty much a "consonant", but at the same time we can make vowel sounds too.

[Pole, the]

sure, it can be the syllable nucleus. but even in phonology we don't normally call this a "vowel".

So, then English /ɚ/ is a (phonological) vowel in most dialects, but in some dialects it isn't?
Furthermore, Mandarin /ɨ/ is a (phonological) vowel in most words, but after some consonants it isn't, right?

[WeepingElf]

By "lateral nasal" do you mean a nasalized lateral? I have heard retroflex nasalized laterals many times from Indian singers (as in 1:34 in this video). It is a very distinctive sound.

Also, speaking of laterals, is there such a thing as a "lateral vowel"?

No. You could argue that the closest you'll ever get is [l], because you have to have a restriction in the oral tract for a lateral and no restriction for a vowel. It's logically impossiblle.

That said, tongue shape perhaps isn't taken into account enough with our current system of classification, and it's possible to have sounds that don't touch the roof of the mouth but do have more restriction in the middle than the outside; some people I think may have this for their dark L – travis transcribes his as ɰ. I don't think anyone can reliably distinguish these from the opposite, though. And I still wouldn't quite call them lateral vowels.

No true lateral vowels, but at least they could be called lateralized or "L-coloured": vowels with the centre of the tongue raised and the sides lowered. I have them in a sketch of a daughter language of Old Albic, and I can both pronounce them and hear a difference.

[Herr Dunkel]

No true lateral vowels, but at least they could be called lateralized or "L-coloured": vowels with the centre of the tongue raised and the sides lowered. I have them in a sketch of a daughter language of Old Albic, and I can both pronounce them and hear a difference.

I have considered an ablaut between lateral and rhotic vowels, and no in-between type.
Then they collapse and form batshit kids.

[Travis B.]

sure, it can be the syllable nucleus. but even in phonology we don't normally call this a "vowel".

So, then English /ɚ/ is a (phonological) vowel in most dialects, but in some dialects it isn't?

At least in my own dialect, there is no [ɚ] or other rhoticized vowels; rather, there are merely either normal vowels followed by /r/ with the /r/ only having limited influence over the vowel quality*, or /ə/ which assimilates completely to the following /r/ to itself become the syllabic [ʁ̩ˤ], with the following /r/ then being elided if it does not precede a vowel.

* namely /e/ > [ɛ̝], /i/ > [ɪ̟], /a/ > [ɑ]**, /ɜ/ > [ɜ̟], /o/ > [ɔ], /u/ >
** this happens with both preceding and following /r/, /w/, /h/, /kw/, and /gw/

[WeepingElf]

No true lateral vowels, but at least they could be called lateralized or "L-coloured": vowels with the centre of the tongue raised and the sides lowered. I have them in a sketch of a daughter language of Old Albic, and I can both pronounce them and hear a difference.

I have considered an ablaut between lateral and rhotic vowels, and no in-between type.
Then they collapse and form batshit kids.

Rhotic vowels also occur in the above-mentioned sketchlang with the lateralized vowels.

[Herr Dunkel]

No true lateral vowels, but at least they could be called lateralized or "L-coloured": vowels with the centre of the tongue raised and the sides lowered. I have them in a sketch of a daughter language of Old Albic, and I can both pronounce them and hear a difference.

I have considered an ablaut between lateral and rhotic vowels, and no in-between type.
Then they collapse and form batshit kids.

Rhotic vowels also occur in the above-mentioned sketchlang with the lateralized vowels.

Crap.
ACADEW?

[Qwynegold]

Heh, I was gonna suggest retroflex ejectives and implosives, but that's already covered. Well, how about a bilabial percussive or whistled ingressive fricatives?

By "lateral nasal" do you mean a nasalized lateral? I have heard retroflex nasalized laterals many times from Indian singers (as in 1:34 in this video). It is a very distinctive sound.

It sounds like he's saying "prata mindre, hora" (talk less, whore).

[Echobeats]

Speaking of r-coloured vowels, how about vowels co-articulated with [ʀ] (as opposed to [ɹ])? You could call them "gargled vowels", and derive them from historic V+/ʀ/.

[Nortaneous]

Speaking of r-coloured vowels, how about vowels co-articulated with [ʀ] (as opposed to [ɹ])? You could call them "gargled vowels", and derive them from historic V+/ʀ/.

ANADEW

[Torco]

Implosive fricatives?

win !!!

[Ser]

Implosive fricatives?

win !!!

How would that even work exactly though?

[Pole, the]

BTW, what are the percussives?

[Thry]

Have nasal fricatives/spirants been mentioned? (I know them from Sindarin but not from any natlang).

[Miekko]

One unusual phoneme would be /d/ (where this is an arbitrary symbol for the phoneme), consisting at least of the allophones , [d], [g], and maybe even [G].

[Thry]

One unusual phoneme would be /d/ (where this is an arbitrary symbol for the phoneme), consisting at least of the allophones , [d], [g], and maybe even [G].

Is that attested? The closest thing I know is Hawai'ian /k~t/.