How to design a non-European phonology

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
Plusquamperfekt
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

German

✔ 1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar (most phoneticians don't consider the glottal stop a phoneme)
✔ 2. Phonemic voicing
✔ 3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
✔ 4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives (f-v, s-z, sch-g)
✔ 5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays (p-b, t-d, k-g vs. m, n, ng)
✘ 6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined (p-pf-t-tsch-k vs. m-n-ng)
◐ 7. No single MOA found at all POAs (depends on how you group the fricatives)
✔ 8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops (palatal, labiodental, uvular)
✔ 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops
✔ 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
✔ 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes
✔ 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics
✔ 13. No lateral obstruents
✔ 14. One phonemic rhotic
◐ 15. 5-7 POAs (8 if you split the labial group into bilabial and labiodental consonants)
✔ 16. 4 stop/affricate POAs (p-t-tsch-k)
✔ 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation
✔ 18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
✔ 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
✔ 20. 7 or more vowel qualities
✔ 21. Three or more diphthongs
✔ 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels
✔ 23. One front rounded vowel
✔ 24. Two or more front rounded vowels
✔ 25. No vowel harmony
✔ 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length
✔ 27. More than three degrees of vowel height
✔ 28. Phonemic stress (few words)
✔ 29. No phonemic tone
✔ 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
✔ 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) "Ball"
✔ 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) "dann"
✔ 33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative) "das"
✔ 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) "hat"
✔ 35. CVCC syllables allowed "Wald"
✘ 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF "Durst"
✔ 37. CLV syllables allowed "Floh"
✔ 38. FCV syllables allowed "Schnee"
✔ 39. CCCV syllables allowed "Stroh"
✔ 40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed
✔ 41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
✔ 42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
✔ 43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives
◐ 44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic (only as allophones, schwa-deletion)
✔ 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
✔ 46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative
✔ 47. No more than four POAs for stops
✔ 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
✔ 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
✔ 50. Presence of an approximant or non-alveolar rhotic
✔51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
✘ 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
✔ 53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found] (except h, final devoicing)
✘ 54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
✔ 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

✔ S1. No initial velar nasal
✔ S2. No tone system with more than two tones
✔ S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides
✔ S4. At least 10 vowels in total
✔ S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
✔ S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
✔ S7. Phonemic voice distinction
✔ S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
✔ S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

94,5%

ęzo
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:09 pm

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by ęzo »

All the natlangs thus far, for reference:

English (Salmoneus): 93%
English (Baradsonoron): 94.5%
English (Nortaneous): 94.5%

French (Baradsonoron): 99.5%
French - Parisian (Serafín): 86.5-88.5%
French - Quebec City (Serafín): 82-87.5%

German (Plusquamperfekt): 94.5%

Swedish (Chuma): 85%

Serbocroatian - Croatian (Click): 80%

Spanish - Salvadoran (Serafín): 72-78%

Scottish Gaelic (Inversion): 70%

Ingush (Goatface): 69.5%

Proto-Indo-European (cedh): 69%

Basque (Nortaneous): 68%

Armenian (Baradsonoron): 67%

Danish (Nortaneous): 65%

Ojibwe (Risla): 64%

Japanese (Clawgrip): 62%
Japanese (Finlay): 61%

Turkish (Baradsonoron): 61%

Arabic (Baradsonoron): 59%

Finnish (Brandrinn): 58%

Mandarin (Ollock): 62%
Mandarin - PRC Standard (Serafín): 45.5-51.5%
Mandarin(?) (Baradsonoron): 46.5%

Cantonese - Hong Kong (Serafín): 57-61.5%

Tlingit (CatDoom): around 50%

Pirahã (Cromulant): 37%

Haida (Tropylium): 30%

User avatar
R.Rusanov
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 393
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:59 pm
Location: Novo-je Orĭlovo

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by R.Rusanov »

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental) (9 unless you count diphthongs)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

79%. What a biased test
Slava, čĭstŭ, hrabrostĭ!

User avatar
Tiamat
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:47 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Tiamat »

Which language is that for?

User avatar
clawgrip
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1723
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:21 am
Location: Tokyo

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by clawgrip »

R.Rusanov wrote:79%. What a biased test
Any specific recommendations on how to improve it?

Plusquamperfekt
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

I have an idea how we could improve the test, but it would be much more work to create the test and to evaluate it.... Let's say our test consists of 100 items. One example item could be the presence of voiceless post-alveolar or retroflex fricative /ʃ/ or /ʂ/. Now let's take a look at a small set of Indo-European languages (the more languages we take into consideration, the more precise the result):

English: +
German: +
French: +
Spanish: - (only in dialects)
Italian: +
Russian: +
Polish: +
Greek: -
Swedish: +
Portuguese: +

ratio: (8/10) / (2/10) => 80% / 20% => 0,8/0,2

Let's imagine our test has five different items with the following values. You can find the value of our example conlang in the parentheses.

(1) 0,8 : 0,2 (conlang 1: a)
(2) 0,6 : 0,4 (conlang 2: b)
(3) 0,8 : 0,2 (conlang 3: a)
(4) 1,0 : 0,0 (conlang 4: a)
(5) 0,6 : 0,4 (conlang 5: b)

OK, now let's count the values and divide the sum by the number of values:

(0,8 + 0,4 + 0,8 + 1,0 + 0,4) / 5 = 3,4 / 5 = 0,68 = 68%

Another example:

(1) 0,8 : 0,2 (conlang 1: b)
(2) 0,6 : 0,4 (conlang 2: b)
(3) 0,8 : 0,2 (conlang 3: b)
(4) 1,0 : 0,0 (conlang 4: b)
(5) 0,6 : 0,4 (conlang 5: b)

(0,2 + 0,4 + 0,2 + 0,0 + 0,4) / 5 = 1,2 / 5 = 0,24 = 24%

Astraios
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:38 am
Location: Israel

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Astraios »

Modern Hebrew, standard Israeli pronunciation, taking loanwords and their phonemes into account. I'll get around to Biblical Hebrew later.

✘ 1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar glottal stop
✔ 2. Phonemic voicing
✔ 3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
✔ 4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
✔ 5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
✘ 6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined p t ʧ k ʔ | m n
◐ 7. No single MOA found at all POAs fricatives: f s ʃ χ h; the velar/uvular contrast isn't phonemic
✔ 8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops uvular
✘ 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops p t ʧ k ʔ | f s ʃ χ h
✔ 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
✔ 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes
✔ 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics
✔ 13. No lateral obstruents
✔ 14. One phonemic rhotic
✔ 15. 5-7 POAs
✘ 16. 4 stop/affricate POAs p t ʧ k ʔ
✔ 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation
✔ 18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
✔ 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
✘ 20. 7 or more vowel qualities i e a o u
◐ 21. Three or more diphthongs native ej aj oj uj, though ej barely contrasts with e; it's debatable whether they're diphthongs or vowels+glides
✔ 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels
✘ 23. One front rounded vowel
✘ 24. Two or more front rounded vowels
✔ 25. No vowel harmony
✔ 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length
✘ 27. More than three degrees of vowel height
✔ 28. Phonemic stress
✔ 29. No phonemic tone
◐ 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed colloquially, all ʔ and h drop; formally only u can appear without ʔ, and then only as an allomorph
✔ 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) kal
✔ 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) kan
✔ 33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative) kaf
✔ 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) kat
✔ 35. CVCC syllables allowed natively, only CVCt, and then only in 2FS.PST of verbs; in loanwords, others
◐ 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF only in loanwords
✔ 37. CLV syllables allowed dli
✔ 38. FCV syllables allowed ski
◐ 39. CCCV syllables allowed loanwords only
✘ 40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed gdi
✔ 41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed not even in loanwords
✘ 42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed dmi
✘ 43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives
✘ 44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic
✔ 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes ʦ ʧ ʤ
◐ 46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative pharyngeal ʕ is not phonemic anymore, but is often used contrastively in homophones arising from the ʕ-ʔ merger, and in Arabic loans
✔ 47. No more than four POAs for stops
✔ 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
✔ 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
✔ 50. Presence of an approximant or non-alveolar rhotic ʁ
✘ 51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
◐ 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all allophonically before g k χ; loanwords in ŋ reanalyzed as ng
✔ 53. Words can end in any consonant
✘ 54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
✔ 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

✔ S1. No initial velar nasal
✔ S2. No tone system with more than two tones
✔ S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides
✘ S4. At least 10 vowels in total
✔ S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
✔ S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
✔ S7. Phonemic voice distinction
✔ S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
✔ S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

80% (I think...)

User avatar
Morrígan
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:33 am
Location: Wizard Tower

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Morrígan »

Counter to Rusanov's position, I'd say that the test may be perfectly valid, it's just not entirely clear what "70%" actually means, outside the parameters of the test.

I think there needs to be an actual scale showing what languages score where, especially from different families. After all, from what I've seen, 70% isn't actually very high, it just seems that way.

If the test is unfair (and it could be), we would need to agree on criteria to judge that, for example, two languages scored too close together despite one of them being radically less SAE.

Plusquamperfekt
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

Hey people, I tried to calculate whether there is a Pearson correlation, so that we know for sure if non-Indoeuropean languages have significantly lower results than Indoeuropean languages. I have to admit that in order to apply the test, you usually need two metric scales (and in this case I try to compare a nominal and a metric scale), but I tried to solve that problem by assigning the value 1 to all non-IE languages and the value 2 to all IE languages and I hope this works out (I hope we have someone who is good at statistics who can tell me if my solution is acceptable).

First of all the values

Index - Language - Variable x - Variable y

Code: Select all

 1 - English (mean)           - 2 - 94
 2 - French (Standard, mean)  - 2 - 87.5
 3 - German                   - 2 - 94.5
 4 - Swedish                  - 2 - 85
 5 - Croatian                 - 2 - 80
 6 - Spanish (mean)           - 2 - 75
 7 - Scottish Gaelic          - 2 - 70
 8 - Ingush                   - 1 - 69.5
 9 - PIE                      - 2 - 69
10 - Basque                   - 1 - 68
11 - Armenian                 - 2 - 67
12 - Danish                   - 2 - 65
13 - Ojibwe                   - 1 - 64
14 - Japanese (mean)          - 1 - 61.5
15 - Turkish                  - 1 - 61
16 - Arabic                   - 1 - 59
17 - Finnish                  - 1 - 58
18 - Mandarin (mean)          - 1 - 52.5
19 - Cantonese                - 1 - 59
20 - Tlingit                  - 1 - 50
21 - Haida                    - 1 - 30

KOR = cov (x, y) / √{∑ (x-xmean)² ∑ (y-ymean)²}

cov (x, y) = ∑(xi-xmean)(yi-ymean)
cov (x, y) = ∑(xi-1.48)(yi-67.6)
cov (x, y) = {(x1-1.48)(y1-67.6)} + {(x2-1.48)(y2-67.6)} + ... + {(xn-1.48)(yn-67.6)} =
cov (x, y) = 111.05

∑ (xi-xmean)² =
∑ (xi-1.48)² =
(x1-1.48)² + (x2-1.48)² + ... + (xn-1.48)² =
5.24

∑ (yi-ymean)² =
∑ (yi-67.6)² =
(x1-67.6)² + (x2-67.6)² + ... + (xn-67.6)² =
4631.81

√{∑ (x-xmean)² ∑ (y-ymean)² =
√{5.24 * 4631.81} =
√{24261,86} =
155,76

KOR = 111.05/155.76 = 0.71

0.71 is a pretty good result and indicates a strong, positive interaction between the variables x (language type) and variable y (percentage). However, even if my calculations are correct, the results are only valid if I chose a suitable procedure and this is very doubtful.

(For those who are not familiar with that: 1 is a perfect positive linear interaction (the more..., the more...), -1 is a perfect negative linear interaction (the more..., the less...), 0 means no interaction at all)
Last edited by Plusquamperfekt on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Morrígan
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 396
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:33 am
Location: Wizard Tower

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Morrígan »

Plusquamperfekt: nice, and good work. It hadn't actually occurred to me to do some stats. But it does show that some of my suspicions were right, viz. that 50% is a low score, and 30% is a very low score.

I guess we'll need more data.

Aili Meilani
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:21 pm

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Aili Meilani »

5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
Is it at all possible for these two to be simultaneously false?
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
Ditto.
Last edited by Aili Meilani on Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tiamat
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:47 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Tiamat »

That's a good point. The only way you could hypothetically get both false would leave the second one with half points. I think we need to get rid of the half points or just get rid of it completely

Plusquamperfekt
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

Thank you Morrigan, let's find out the significance level as well

KOR = r = 0.7129

n = 21
dof = 19

Test size:

ts = r*√(n-2) / √(1-r²) = a/b

a = 0.7129*√19
a = 0.7129*4.3589
a = 3.1075

b = √(1-0.7129²)
b = √(1-0.5082)
b = √(0.4918)
b = 0.7013

ts = a/b = 3.1075/0.7013 = 4.4311

Excel: (I'm a cheater 8) )

=TVERT(4.4311;19;2)

***p < .001 (0.000286713)

The interaction between language type and rate is extremely statistically significant.

Seems to be a good test I guess...
Last edited by Plusquamperfekt on Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Aili Meilani
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:21 pm

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Aili Meilani »

Phonology created specifically to try to beat the test:

/ɴ k͜p q ʔ k͜pʰ qʰ k͜pʼ qʼ ʟ̞ (uvular)/ /a i ɯ u ã ĩ ɯ̃ ũ/
tonesː hiɡh, mid, low
nasality harmony
C(:)V

No points, half, full.

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined

7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]

47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. Presence of an approximant/non-alveolar rhotic
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length and quality, but not syllable-specific tone or phonation)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


Result: 1.5% SAE. Improvements are welcome.

User avatar
ObsequiousNewt
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:05 pm
Location: /ˈaɪ̯əwʌ/

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Ya gonna make a language outta that?


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

cromulant
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 402
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:12 pm

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by cromulant »

Na'vi from the movie Avatar

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives only fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays ejectives and nasals
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops i am considering labiodental and bilabial the same POA
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables dunno
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

56%, give or take half a point for # 54.

User avatar
Nortaneous
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 4544
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Location: the Imperial Corridor

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

changed q5

Rotokas

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives

4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives

5. /v/ but no /w/
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined

7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]

8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]

13. No lateral obstruents

14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs

17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]

20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]

21. Three or more diphthongs

22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]

23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony

26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]

27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress

29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]

30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed

31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes

46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]

47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]

48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries

50. Presence of an approximant/non-alveolar rhotic

51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony

52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all

53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones

S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length and quality, but not syllable-specific tone or phonation)

S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]

S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]

S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]
(lol)

32.5%

and Piraha (assuming /p t ʔ b g s h/ for consonants)

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]

2. Phonemic voicing

3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. /v/ but no /w/
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined

7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]

8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops

9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]

10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)

11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]

13. No lateral obstruents

14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]

15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs][/color]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs

17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]

18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]

20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs

22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony

26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]

27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress

29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]

30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed

31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes

46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]

47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]

48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)

49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries

50. Presence of an approximant/non-alveolar rhotic
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony

52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones

S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length and quality, but not syllable-specific tone or phonation)

S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless

S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
(eeeehhhhhhh)
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]

S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


43% SAE, lol
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

User avatar
Aurora Rossa
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:46 am
Location: The vendée of America
Contact:

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Aurora Rossa »

Would you really say that /v/ but no /w/ is a particularly European trait? I can think of plenty of European languages with /w/ and at least some of them lack /v/.
Image
"There was a particular car I soon came to think of as distinctly St. Louis-ish: a gigantic white S.U.V. with a W. bumper sticker on it for George W. Bush."

Astraios
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2974
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:38 am
Location: Israel

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Astraios »

Biblical Hebrew, Tiberian vocalization tradition, around 100 BCE, and, assuming it occurred after this date, before pharyngealization of the emphatics. After allophonic fricatization became phonemic.

✘ 1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar ʔ
✔ 2. Phonemic voicing
✔ 3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
✘ 4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives x ɣ
✘ 5. /v/ but no /w/ w and β
✘ 6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined p t k ʔ | m n
✔ 7. No single MOA found at all POAs fricatives: ɸ θ s ʃ x ħ h
✔ 8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops interdental
✔ 9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops p t k ʔ | ɸ θ s ʃ x ħ h
✔ 10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
✔ 11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes
✔ 12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics by this time ɬ had likely merged already with s
✔ 13. No lateral obstruents see above
✔ 14. One phonemic rhotic
✔ 15. 5-7 POAs
✔ 16. 4 stop/affricate POAs p t k ʔ
✘ 17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation (pˀ) tˀ kˀ
✘ 18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction ejective (or pharyngealized or velarized)
✘ 19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind
✔ 20. 7 or more vowel qualities i e ɛ ə a ɔ o u, also length
✘ 21. Three or more diphthongs aj oj uj aw iw; most probably parsed as vowels+glides
✔ 22. No non-low back unrounded vowels
✘ 23. One front rounded vowel
✘ 24. Two or more front rounded vowels
✔ 25. No vowel harmony
✔ 26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length
✔ 27. More than three degrees of vowel height
✔ 28. Phonemic stress
✔ 29. No phonemic tone
◐ 30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed only u: can appear without ʔ, and then only as an allomorph
✔ 31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic) qa:l
✔ 32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal) ka:n
✔ 33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative) ka:ɸ
✔ 34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop) ti:q
✔ 35. CVCC syllables allowed only CVCt in 2FS.PRF; occasionally appears in narrative conjugation
✘ 36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF not at all allowed
✘ 37. CLV syllables allowed all syllable-initial clusters are broken up with ə or an extrashort vowel
✘ 38. FCV syllables allowed
✘ 39. CCCV syllables allowed
✘ 40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed none allowed
✘ 41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed none allowed
✘ 42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed none allowed
✘ 43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives
✘ 44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic
✘ 45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes only ʦ(ˀ)
✔ 46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative no POA has only one MOA
✔ 47. No more than four POAs for stops
✔ 48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/
✘ 49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
✘ 50. Presence of an approximant or non-alveolar rhotic
✘ 51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
◐ 52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all probably allophonically before g k
✘ 53. Words can end in any consonant I'm unaware of any word ending with a plain stop other than t
✘ 54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables not in Tiberian, other vocalizations do merge shortened ɛ ə a ɔ
✔ 55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

✔ S1. No initial velar nasal
✔ S2. No tone system with more than two tones
✘ S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides CCV does not occur
✔ S4. At least 10 vowels in total if including length, which I am
✔ S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
✘ S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
✔ S7. Phonemic voice distinction
✔ S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops
✔ S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants

59% (I think...)

User avatar
Lyhoko Leaci
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 716
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:20 pm
Location: Not Mariya's road network, thankfully.

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Lyhoko Leaci »

My attempt to beat the test:

Code: Select all

tk tk' kq kq'
   nʷ ɳʷ ɲʷ ŋʷ
m  n  ɳ  ɲ  ŋ
p  t  ʈ  c  k   q   ʡ  ʔ
   t'       k'  q'
   tʷ ʈʷ cʷ kʷ  qʷ   
            kʷ' qʷ'
ɸ  s        x          h
   ɬ
         j  ɰ
ʙ
            ʟ
ʘ  !     ǂ
a i ɯ u ã ĩ ɯ̃ ũ
tonesː hiɡh, mid, low
nasality harmony
C(:)V

Seems a bit kitchen sinky?

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined

7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]

15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Voicing as the only phonation distinction
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels
25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)
35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed
43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. Presence of an approximant/non-alveolar rhotic
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA


The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length and quality, but not syllable-specific tone or phonation)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]


Result 1% SAE. I think.
Zain pazitovcor, sio? Sio, tovcor.
You can't read that, right? Yes, it says that.
Shinali Sishi wrote:"Have I spoken unclearly? I meant electric catfish not electric onions."

User avatar
Quantum
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:39 pm

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Quantum »

Lyhoko Leaci wrote:kq kq'
what?
"To those who seek the solace of eternity, may journey down the river through the sacred Gates of Iss and find everlasting peace in the bosom of Issus"

Plusquamperfekt
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:33 am

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Plusquamperfekt »

I can pronounce [kq] 8)

----
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:15 pm

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by ---- »

Quechua de Cuzco:

1. Absence of any phonemic POA for stops further back than velar [half mark for only one stop-POA behind velar, or for prominent allophonic stops behind velar]
2. Phonemic voicing
3. Phonemic voicing only on stops and fricatives only fricatives
4. Voicing distinction on fricatives but only labial and/or coronal fricatives
5. At least two MOAs with identical POA arrays (are regular stops and ejectives different MOAs? I'll consider them to be for the rest of the survey)
6. One fewer phonemic POA for nasals than for stops and affricates combined
7. No single MOA found at all POAs [half mark if only one MOA at all POAs]
8. At least one non-glottal POA with at least one fricative but no stops
9. Fricatives distinguish more POAs than (non-nasal) stops [half mark if they distinguish the same number]
10. More non-stops than stops (not counting nasals as either stops or non-stops)
11. Between 20 and 30 consonant phonemes [half mark if between 15 and 40]
12. One phonemic lateral, distinguished from rhotics [half mark if more than one]
13. No lateral obstruents
14. One phonemic rhotic [half mark if more than one]
15. 5-7 POAs [half mark if at least 4 POAs]
16. 4 stop/affricate POAs
17. No systematic secondary articulation at more than one POA and no double articulation [half mark if there is systematic palatal secondary articulation]
18. Absence of any phonemic phonation distinction other than voicing
19. No clicks, ejectives, or ingressive consonants of any kind [half mark if one of these categories occurs not as a series]
20. 7 or more vowel qualities [half mark for 5 or more]
21. Three or more diphthongs
22. No non-low back unrounded vowels [half mark if no high back unrounded vowels]
23. One front rounded vowel
24. Two or more front rounded vowels

25. No vowel harmony
26. Vowels distinguished solely by height, frontness, roundedness and length. (i.e. no voice distinctions, rhotic vowels, ATR, nasal vowels, etc) [half mark for nasal vowels not occuring at all vowel qualities]
27. More than three degrees of vowel height
28. Phonemic stress (half mark because it's exceedingly marginal)
29. No phonemic tone [half mark for two-tone languages]
30. Syllables without onset consonants allowed
31. CVL syllables allowed (L = lateral or rhotic)
32. CVN syllables allowed (N = nasal)
33. CVF syllables allowed (F = fricative)
34. CVS syllables allowed (S = stop)

35. CVCC syllables allowed
36. CVCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCF [half mark if CVCCCC syllables not allowed other than CVCCCF] [no mark if CVCCC syllables not allowed]
37. CLV syllables allowed
38. FCV syllables allowed (F = fricative), where C is not a glide or a liquid. [but only half mark if C cannot be a member of a particular series (eg nasal, voiced, ejective, fricative etc) or POA]
39. CCCV syllables allowed
40. CCV syllables allowed but SSV or SSCV syllables not allowed (not including geminates)
41. CCCV syllables allowed but CCNV syllables not allowed
42. CCV syllables allowed but SNV syllables not allowed

43. Sonority hierarchy violation in consonant clusters allowed only for fricatives (stops -> fricatives -> liquids -> approximants)
44. One syllabic consonant, a rhotic [half mark if lateral or both]
45. (At least some) affricates treated as phonemes
46. No non-glottal POA with only one MOA, and that MOA isn't fricative [not counting /w/ as labial-velar or whatever]
47. No more than four POAs for stops (affricates not counted) [half mark for five, or counting affricates]
48. No initial nasal other than /m/ or /n/ (half mark if other initial nasals but not initial velar or uvular nasal)
49. No phonemic distinction of consonant length, or gemination, except across morpheme boundaries
50. No more than two series of fricatives
51. 9 or more vowel POAs AND no vowel harmony
52. No velar (or uvular, etc) nasals at all
53. Words can end in any consonant [half mark if 1-2 exceptions found]
54. Vowel mergers in unstressed syllables
55. More phonemes at a single coronal POA than at any other single POA

The following special questions are each worth 5 marks (in addition to any they may have gained in the above):
S1. No initial velar nasal
S2. No tone system with more than two tones
S3. Syllables of both CCV and CVC form appear (not necessarily for all C), where all Cs can be non-glides [2.5 marks if this is true but some Cs must be glides]
S4. At least 10 vowels in total (including length, quality, and syllable-specific tone, not including anything suprasegmental)
S5. No non-pulmonic consonants
S6. No phonation distinctions other than voiced/voiceless
S7. Phonemic voice distinction [2.5 marks if it is only one aspect of a distinction]
S8. Fricatives and affricates, added together, outnumber plain non-nasal stops [2.5 marks if fricatives, affricates, liquids and glides together outnumber (nasals + stops), OR if the fricatives+affricates EQUALS non-nasal stops]
S9. Ignoring stops and nasals: more fricatives than non-fricative consonants [2.5 marks if equal]

This language is ~41.5% SAE depending on your interpretation.

User avatar
ObsequiousNewt
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:05 pm
Location: /ˈaɪ̯əwʌ/

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by ObsequiousNewt »

Lyhoko Leaci wrote:My attempt to beat the test:
-snip-
Result 1% SAE. I think.
Wait, with four fricatives? I'm impressed.


Ο ορανς τα ανα̨ριθομον ϝερρον εͱεν ανθροποτροφον.
Το̨ ανθροπς αυ̨τ εκψον επ αθο̨ οραναμο̨ϝον.
Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν. Θαιν.

User avatar
Nortaneous
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 4544
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:52 am
Location: the Imperial Corridor

Re: How to design a non-European phonology

Post by Nortaneous »

Aurora Rossa wrote:Would you really say that /v/ but no /w/ is a particularly European trait? I can think of plenty of European languages with /w/ and at least some of them lack /v/.
yeah but on the other hand, every germanic language, every baltic language, every slavic language except polish, every uralic language in europe

wasn't there a w > v sound change in english at one point somewhere in the last few centuries? or at least confusion betveen the two? although it obwiously died out

if there's a problem with that question it's that it's too broad, and might pick up too many asian languages. then again, the uralic ones are p. european in phonology... should weight absence of /1/ much more heavily to make up for that?
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

Post Reply