Quick MSA Question
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- Avisaru
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Quick MSA Question
Are all verbs in languages described as Active-Stative (a/k/a Fluid-S languages) selected by semantic criteria? I guess that would mean such a language would be a pure "active-stative" without a split in mSA. Or, are natlangs of that type actually a combination of Active-stative verbs in one category and in another category verbs which are split-s. Split-s meaning the agentive and patientive reading of the verb is lexically or non-semantically selected.
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- Drydic
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Re: Quick MSA Question
I thought this thread would be about Modern Standard Arabic and am ashamed that I was wrong.
- Aurora Rossa
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Re: Quick MSA Question
Heh, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Although I am more surprised than ashamed.Nessari wrote:I thought this thread would be about Modern Standard Arabic and am ashamed that I was wrong.
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- Salmoneus
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Re: Quick MSA Question
I don't know the answer to this question (though I'd note some terminological ambiguity - I've seen 'active-stative' refer to fluid-S, split-S OR fluid-S, or only to split/fluid-Ss where the split is related to volition).
However, I'd wager the answer is "no". I wager this because in linguistics the answer to the question "are all Xs always Y?" is almost always "no".
However, I'd wager the answer is "no". I wager this because in linguistics the answer to the question "are all Xs always Y?" is almost always "no".
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But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Radius Solis
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Re: Quick MSA Question
If memory serves, it is unattested for all verbs to have a fluid S in any single language. There are virtually always at least some verbs that lexically require an agent-marked S, or some that require a patient-marked S, or some of each. Even halfway-pure split-S and fluid-S languages are rarer than languages with large sets of verbs in each category. Mixture is the more normal state.
And as far as I can recall, this pattern extends to ergativity in general... it is common for languages we'd call "ergative" to have at least a few verbs that require an agent-marked S and/or a few that optionally allow one.
As for the terminology, Sal is correct that "active-stative" can mean different things to different writers, but it is common for it to be used for both fluid and split S. On Wikipedia, and in e.g. Describing Morphosyntax, you see split-S and fluid-S treated as subtypes of active-stative. The fact that those types are so often mixed up together is (IMO) a good reason for sticking to this usage.
And as far as I can recall, this pattern extends to ergativity in general... it is common for languages we'd call "ergative" to have at least a few verbs that require an agent-marked S and/or a few that optionally allow one.
As for the terminology, Sal is correct that "active-stative" can mean different things to different writers, but it is common for it to be used for both fluid and split S. On Wikipedia, and in e.g. Describing Morphosyntax, you see split-S and fluid-S treated as subtypes of active-stative. The fact that those types are so often mixed up together is (IMO) a good reason for sticking to this usage.
- So Haleza Grise
- Avisaru
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Re: Quick MSA Question
As per the previous two guys, although I'm not familiar with any specific active-stative languages, it's always a matter of degree; there is never a "completely" active-stative language; idiosyncracies are always there.
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