Quick MSA Question

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
Post Reply
User avatar
2+3 clusivity
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:34 pm

Quick MSA Question

Post by 2+3 clusivity »

Are all verbs in languages described as Active-Stative (a/k/a Fluid-S languages) selected by semantic criteria? I guess that would mean such a language would be a pure "active-stative" without a split in mSA. Or, are natlangs of that type actually a combination of Active-stative verbs in one category and in another category verbs which are split-s. Split-s meaning the agentive and patientive reading of the verb is lexically or non-semantically selected.
linguoboy wrote:So that's what it looks like when the master satirist is moistened by his own moutarde.

User avatar
Drydic
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1652
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2002 12:23 pm
Location: I am a prisoner in my own mind.
Contact:

Re: Quick MSA Question

Post by Drydic »

I thought this thread would be about Modern Standard Arabic and am ashamed that I was wrong.
Image Image
Common Zein Scratchpad & other Stuffs! OMG AN ACTUAL CONPOST WTFBBQ

Formerly known as Drydic.

User avatar
Aurora Rossa
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:46 am
Location: The vendée of America
Contact:

Re: Quick MSA Question

Post by Aurora Rossa »

Nessari wrote:I thought this thread would be about Modern Standard Arabic and am ashamed that I was wrong.
Heh, I was thinking exactly the same thing. Although I am more surprised than ashamed.
Image
"There was a particular car I soon came to think of as distinctly St. Louis-ish: a gigantic white S.U.V. with a W. bumper sticker on it for George W. Bush."

User avatar
Salmoneus
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3197
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: One of the dark places of the world

Re: Quick MSA Question

Post by Salmoneus »

I don't know the answer to this question (though I'd note some terminological ambiguity - I've seen 'active-stative' refer to fluid-S, split-S OR fluid-S, or only to split/fluid-Ss where the split is related to volition).

However, I'd wager the answer is "no". I wager this because in linguistics the answer to the question "are all Xs always Y?" is almost always "no".
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

User avatar
Radius Solis
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:40 pm
Location: Si'ahl
Contact:

Re: Quick MSA Question

Post by Radius Solis »

If memory serves, it is unattested for all verbs to have a fluid S in any single language. There are virtually always at least some verbs that lexically require an agent-marked S, or some that require a patient-marked S, or some of each. Even halfway-pure split-S and fluid-S languages are rarer than languages with large sets of verbs in each category. Mixture is the more normal state.

And as far as I can recall, this pattern extends to ergativity in general... it is common for languages we'd call "ergative" to have at least a few verbs that require an agent-marked S and/or a few that optionally allow one.


As for the terminology, Sal is correct that "active-stative" can mean different things to different writers, but it is common for it to be used for both fluid and split S. On Wikipedia, and in e.g. Describing Morphosyntax, you see split-S and fluid-S treated as subtypes of active-stative. The fact that those types are so often mixed up together is (IMO) a good reason for sticking to this usage.

User avatar
So Haleza Grise
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 432
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 11:17 pm

Re: Quick MSA Question

Post by So Haleza Grise »

As per the previous two guys, although I'm not familiar with any specific active-stative languages, it's always a matter of degree; there is never a "completely" active-stative language; idiosyncracies are always there.
Duxirti petivevoumu tinaya to tiei šuniš muruvax ulivatimi naya to šizeni.

Post Reply