Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
CatDoom wrote:In any event, it's something you'd expect to happen over a long period, not to a recent loanword...
Wasn't this the purpose of this thread? To borrow the words into your protolang, and then evolve them to their reflexes in the "modern" form of your language?
CatDoom wrote:
Eh, I think it's mostly lots of vowel reduction, stemming from a strong fixed final stress... although apparently some words have penultimate stress instead? In any event, it's something you'd expect to happen over a long period, not to a recent loanword...
Yep you're right. I'm putting that through three additional major stages and lots of minor ones. /pʰahǝfanisa/ > /faʔǝfani:sa/ ~ /fa.fani:sa/ (assimilation of ǝ) > /fafanijsa/ (diphthongization of long /i/) ~ /fa.anijsa/ ~ /fa:'nijs/ (deletion of final a/e class vowels, and final stress now, yep) > /fa:'nijt/ (plosivization of finals) > */fa:'nijt/ ~ */fa'nijt/ ~ /ha'nijt/. Still weird tho I agree.
Same process with others.
Anyway, loaning (Hope I don't flood again). And well I'll try to be less weird.
Tmaśareʔ yǫńa [ˈjɔ̃ːɲʌ] Fèngë yúņ'át /'ju:ŋ'ʔa:t/
Tmaśareʔ cahmǫco [tsɑxˈm̥ɔ̃ːtsʊ] Fèngë cá'amȍt /'tsa.a.m(w)ɔ:t/
Tmaśareʔ potwo [ˈpotwʊ] Fèngë bátavo /'ba:.ta.vo/
Tmaśareʔ węńo [ˈwɛ̃ːɲʊ] Fèngë vȅņ'o /'vɛ:ŋ.ʔo/
Note: /o/ is better loaned as slightly lowered /u/ or /ʊ/
A mǿrke mǿr mǿrètë mǿrke mǿrum. (Mè ètas badètëls)
/a m(j)œ:rʲke m(j)œ:rʲ m(j)œ:r:ɛt(ə) m(j)œ:rʲke m(j)œ:rum/
A bearlike bear roared at a bearlike bear like a bear. (From the mind of the creator)
CatDoom wrote:
Eh, I think it's mostly lots of vowel reduction, stemming from a strong fixed final stress... although apparently some words have penultimate stress instead? In any event, it's something you'd expect to happen over a long period, not to a recent loanword...
Yep you're right. I'm putting that through three additional major stages and lots of minor ones. /pʰahǝfanisa/ > /faʔǝfani:sa/ ~ /fa.fani:sa/ (assimilation of ǝ) > /fafanijsa/ (diphthongization of long /i/) ~ /fa.anijsa/ ~ /fa:'nijs/ (deletion of final a/e class vowels, and final stress now, yep) > /fa:'nijt/ (plosivization of finals) > */fa:'nijt/ ~ */fa'nijt/ ~ /ha'nijt/. Still weird tho I agree.
Same process with others.
Anyway, loaning (Hope I don't flood again). And well I'll try to be less weird.
Tmaśareʔ yǫńa [ˈjɔ̃ːɲʌ] Fèngë yúņ'át /'ju:ŋ'ʔa:t/
Tmaśareʔ cahmǫco [tsɑxˈm̥ɔ̃ːtsʊ] Fèngë cá'amȍt /'tsa.a.m(w)ɔ:t/
Tmaśareʔ potwo [ˈpotwʊ] Fèngë bátavo /'ba:.ta.vo/
Tmaśareʔ węńo [ˈwɛ̃ːɲʊ] Fèngë vȅņ'o /'vɛ:ŋ.ʔo/
Note: /o/ is better loaned as slightly lowered /u/ or /ʊ/
CatDoom wrote:In any event, it's something you'd expect to happen over a long period, not to a recent loanword...
Wasn't this the purpose of this thread? To borrow the words into your protolang, and then evolve them to their reflexes in the "modern" form of your language?
That or just borrowing. The first time we had a thread like this ppl just borrowed words. I think it's good practice to at least include a borrowing stage of you're gonna apply sounds changes too, because then we can see how it's changed in between. Also I think ppl would do good to remember that not all sounds changes cause reduction - after all, if that was truly the case, we would eventually reduce all words to a schwa.
CatDoom wrote:In any event, it's something you'd expect to happen over a long period, not to a recent loanword...
Wasn't this the purpose of this thread? To borrow the words into your protolang, and then evolve them to their reflexes in the "modern" form of your language?
That or just borrowing. The first time we had a thread like this ppl just borrowed words. I think it's good practice to at least include a borrowing stage of you're gonna apply sounds changes too, because then we can see how it's changed in between. Also I think ppl would do good to remember that not all sounds changes cause reduction - after all, if that was truly the case, we would eventually reduce all words to a schwa.
I think one of the problems is that meanings and word classes aren't generally included, for justifiable reasons really (especially meaning). Those probably contribute quite a bit to keeping words from shortening in natlangs, for example nouns being borrowed with accusative or plural markings and verbs with tense-aspect morphology, words compounding to maintain clarity after syllable loss, or surviving in lexicalized derivations rather than as the original stem. And so on.
Apanic: wù ňã ňó [ɰɯ˥˨ ŋaʔ˧ ŋo˩˧] → Ancient Vitran xun gaq gos [xun gaq gos] → Classical Vitran hyn gaq go [xǝn kaqʰ ko]
Apanic: de ňò má [te˨ ŋo˥˨ ma˩˧] → Ancient Vitran ten gob nas [ten gob nas] → Classical Vitran ten gob na [tʰen kop na]
Apanic: gà bò dẽ gà bo [ka˥˨ po˥˨ teʔ˧ po˨] → Ancient Vitran kap pot tep pos [kap pot tep pos] → Classical Vitran kap pot tep po [kʰapʰ pʰotʰ tʰepʰ pʰo]
Apanic: gà bò ňã ňá mo [ka˥˨ po˥˨ ŋaʔ˧ ŋa˩˧ mo˨] → Ancient Vitran kap pon gaq gab nos [kap pon gaq gab nos] → Classical Vitran kap pon gaq gab no [kʰapʰ pʰon kaqʰ kap no]
Classical Vitran hyn gaq go [xǝn kaqʰ ko] Old Zarcosian xankaǩo [xankaqo] Modern Zarcosian xänkäko [χɑnqɑˈqo] Wastelandic Zarcosian hënkëṗê [həŋkəˈbəɯ̯̽]
Classical Vitran ten gob na [tʰen kop na] Old Zarcosian tenkopna [tenkopna] Modern Zarcosian tënkopna [tɤɴqopˈna] Wastelandic Zarcosian tënpëpna [təmpəpˈnæi̯]
Classical Vitran kap pot tep po [kʰapʰ pʰotʰ tʰepʰ pʰo] Old Zarcosian kapotepo [kapotepo] Modern Zarcosian käptpo [qɑptˈpo] Wastelandic Zarcosian këptpo [kəptˈpɔʊ̯]
Classical Vitran kap pon gaq gab no [kʰapʰ pʰon kaqʰ kap no] Old Zarcosian kaponkaǩapno [kaponkaqapno] Modern Zarcosian käponkäkäpno [qɑpoɴqɑqɑpˈno] Wastelandic Zarcosian këṗënkëḳëpno [kəbəŋkəkəpˈnɔʊ̯]
Matrix wrote:Classical Vitran hyn gaq go [xǝn kaqʰ ko] Old Zarcosian xankaǩo [xankaqo] Modern Zarcosian xänkäko [χɑnqɑˈqo] Wastelandic Zarcosian hënkëṗê [həŋkəˈbəɯ̯̽]
Classical Vitran ten gob na [tʰen kop na] Old Zarcosian tenkopna [tenkopna] Modern Zarcosian tënkopna [tɤɴqopˈna] Wastelandic Zarcosian tënpëpna [təmpəpˈnæi̯]
Classical Vitran kap pot tep po [kʰapʰ pʰotʰ tʰepʰ pʰo] Old Zarcosian kapotepo [kapotepo] Modern Zarcosian käptpo [qɑptˈpo] Wastelandic Zarcosian këptpo [kəptˈpɔʊ̯]
Classical Vitran kap pon gaq gab no [kʰapʰ pʰon kaqʰ kap no] Old Zarcosian kaponkaǩapno [kaponkaqapno] Modern Zarcosian käponkäkäpno [qɑpoɴqɑqɑpˈno] Wastelandic Zarcosian këṗënkëḳëpno [kəbəŋkəkəpˈnɔʊ̯]
Mecongai caungae [kɑʟˈŋɑː] Proto-Coastal-Western khalŋa [kʰɐɫŋɐ] Bol Ou káuŋa [ˈka.u.ŋa]
Mecongai Ttamanai [t’ɑˈmɑ.nɑʟ] Proto-Coastal-Western tamanal [tɐmɐnɐɫ] Bol Ou támanau [ˈta.ma.na.u]
Mecongai caitteo [kɑʟˈt’ø] Proto-Coastal-Western khalto [kʰɐɫto] Bol Ou káuto [ˈka.u.do]
Mecongai caengahaina [kɑːˈŋɑ.χɑʟ.nɑ] Proto-Coastal-Western khaŋaxalna [kʰɐŋɐχɐɫnɐ] Bol Ou káŋašauna [ˈka.ŋa.ʒa.u.na]
Bol Ou káuŋa [ˈka.u.ŋa] Middle Tatrìny kónnga [ˈkɔ́ŋːa]
Bol Ou támanau [ˈta.ma.na.u] Middle Tatrìny tánnahu [ˈtánːahu]
Bol Ou káuto [ˈka.u.do] Middle Tatrìny kóttu [ˈkɔ́tːu]
Bol Ou káŋašauna [ˈka.ŋa.ʒa.u.na] Middle Tatrìny kátrahuna [ˈkáʈahuna]
Middle Tatrìny kónnga [ˈkɔ́ŋːa] > Early Middle Hieron kóńńa [ˈkɔŋːa] > Modern Central Hieron kôa [ˈkuːa]/kôqa [ˈkuːɰa]
Middle Tatrìny tánnahu [ˈtánːahu] > Early Middle Hieron tánnahu [ˈtanːahu] > Modern Central Hieron tánnahu [ˈtanaʔʉ]
Middle Tatrìny kóttu [ˈkɔ́tːu] > Early Middle Hieron kóttu [ˈkɔtːu] > Modern Central Hieron kóttu [ˈkʊtʉ]
Middle Tatrìny kátrahuna [ˈkáʈahuna] > Early Middle Hieron kátrahuna [ˈkatʀahuna] > Modern Central Hieron kátrahuna [ˈkatʲʰçaʔʉna]
Foreign words mark accent with a raising diacritic not falling (i.e.á not à), and in long vowels raising-falling not double dot (i.e.â not ä); those special accent marks should be marked out even in formal writing (normal accent marks are only written in textbooks and where confusion would otherwise occur). [tʲʰç] is an affricate-sort-of-thing, [ç] being originally a glide.
Always an adventurer, I guess.
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Tone: Chao's notation.
Apical vowels: [ɿ]≈[z̞̩], [ʅ]≈[ɻ̞̩], [ʮ]≈[z̞̩ʷ], [ʯ]≈[ɻ̞̩ʷ].
Vowels: [ᴇ]=Mid front unrounded, [ᴀ]=Open central unrounded, [ⱺ]=Mid back rounded, [ⱻ]=Mid back unrounded.
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