Icelandic (First) Names

[sangi39]

There's a story currently making it's way around Facebook about a girl called "Harriet" and her brother "Duncan" who were recently declined (renewal of their) passports by the Icelandic government because their names weren't confirmed by the Icelandic Naming Committee (despite them being born in Iceland to French parents, born in France, with two older children born in France, IIUC).

Now, in this case, these two children seem to fall within an odd hole in the Icelandic naming laws since both parents or not Icelandic, and IIRC, the Icelandic naming laws only apply if one or both parents are Icelandic. If this is the case, then why would their passport application be rejected?

More specific to the question I actually wanted an answer to, the father has stated that the reason for the rejection was because both "Harriet" and "Duncan" couldn't be declined (he actually said "conjugated") in Icelandic. Is this true?

And a follow up question, how does Icelandic handle foreign names in media? If, for example, a non-Icelandic name should appear in the dative, but it doesn't fit into a pre-existing declension paradigm, how would it appear? Is the name modified to fit Icelandic nominal morphology, or is some other method used?

[Magb]

Here's an Icelandic source: http://www.visir.is/10-ara-stulku-neita ... 4706259967 (A small correction to your description: The parents are originally British, but the two older children were indeed born in France.)

According to the article the passport applications themselves haven't exactly been declined, but the children officially have to go by the names "Stúlka Cardew" and "Drengur Cardew" ("Girl" and "Boy" Cardew). According to some of the comments on the article, the reason the exception with foreign parents didn't apply is precisely because the children were born in Iceland.

The names not being declinable in Icelandic is indeed the most likely reason why they were rejected. From the official Mannanafnanefnd website (http://www.urskurdir.is/DomsOgKirkjumal ... a/Um_nofn/):

Hvernig má nafnið vera?
* Nafnið þarf að geta tekið íslenskri eignarfallsendingu eða hafa unnið sér hefð í íslensku máli.
* Það má ekki brjóta í bág við íslenskt málkerfi.
* Það skal ritað í samræmi við íslenskar ritvenjur nema hefð sé fyrir öðrum rithætti þess.
* Það má ekki vera þannig að það geti orðið þeim sem ber það til ama.
* Stúlku má aðeins gefa kvenmannsnafn og dreng aðeins karlmannsnafn.

My translation:

How may names be formed:
* It must be possible to form an Icelandic genitive ending for the name, or the name must have a tradition of use in the Icelandic language.
* The name must not violate the Icelandic language structure ("málkerfi").
* The name shall be written according to Icelandic writing customs, unless there's a tradition for writing it in a different manner.
* The name must not be a nuisance to the person bearing it.
* Girls must only be given female names and boys must only be given male names.

[vec]

It is indeed a hole in the system that you can only use foreign names if one of the parents is foreign. People debate this all the time, hotly, whether name regulation is a viable thing in the 21st century. I don't have so much of a problem with it, but I think half-Icelandic children should be able to have non-Icelandic names for sure, just as immigrants and children of two immigrant parents can.

[Clearsand]

This topic has always fascinated me. What if someone can't verify your name because they can't read it. If your drivers liscence said Zxxdfhyn or had a Chinese character on it but you said it was pronounced "Fred," would that still be legal? Does anyone know the rules regarding legal names in the USA?

[Zaarin]

This topic has always fascinated me. What if someone can't verify your name because they can't read it. If your drivers liscence said Zxxdfhyn or had a Chinese character on it but you said it was pronounced "Fred," would that still be legal? Does anyone know the rules regarding legal names in the USA?

To my knowledge the US has no name regulations, though if it were vile enough it might get you turned in to child protective services. On the other hand the existence of names like "Adolph Hitler" and "Marijuana Pepsi" seriously call even that into question.

[linguoboy]

This topic has always fascinated me. What if someone can't verify your name because they can't read it. If your drivers liscence said Zxxdfhyn or had a Chinese character on it but you said it was pronounced "Fred," would that still be legal? Does anyone know the rules regarding legal names in the USA?

To my knowledge the US has no name regulations, though if it were vile enough it might get you turned in to child protective services. On the other hand the existence of names like "Adolph Hitler" and "Marijuana Pepsi" seriously call even that into question.

There have been cases of local authorities refusing to register particular names until taken to court. So a lot depends on your jurisdiction and whether your kooky name is a worth a lawsuit to you.

Recently, for instance, a woman with a 36-character surname successfully forced a change in policy in the State of Hawai'i: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/d ... e-id-cards. (In this case, though, it wasn't her legal name which was at stake but simply the manner in which it was displayed on official ID.)

[hwhatting]

And a follow up question, how does Icelandic handle foreign names in media? If, for example, a non-Icelandic name should appear in the dative, but it doesn't fit into a pre-existing declension paradigm, how would it appear? Is the name modified to fit Icelandic nominal morphology, or is some other method used?

I'd be interested in that as well. In Lithuanian, they stick Lithuanian endings on foreign names and even adapt the orthography to Lithuanian conventions, so that e.g. Bill Clinton is Viljamas Džefersonas „Bilas“ Klintonas. Checking the Icelandic wikipedia article on him shows no such adaptation - they just write "Bill Clinton", but perhaps vec can say whether this is the typical way for Icelandic to treat such names?

[R.Rusanov]

PIE had non-os-ending masculine nouns though. Like phter or wergom... can't William be reflected, then, as Viljon (*wiliom) or smt more similar to the sound of the word?

[hwhatting]

PIE had non-os-ending masculine nouns though. Like phter or wergom... can't William be reflected, then, as Viljon (*wiliom) or smt more similar to the sound of the word?

Despite the enthusiasm of some early 20th century IEanists, Lithuanian is not PIE. Like in many other IE languages, most nouns have been shifted from the consonantal declination classes to the vocalic classes, so Modern Lithuanian male nouns tend to end in -as, -is, -us. There are a few male n-stems (with -uo in the Nom. Sg. and stem -en- in the other cases), but they're a closed class, and one single historical s-stem (Nom. Sg. menuo or menesis "moon", which otherwise declines like a -yo- stem: gen. menesio. So things like *Viljon are not viable declinable male nouns in Lithuanian.

[vec]

And a follow up question, how does Icelandic handle foreign names in media? If, for example, a non-Icelandic name should appear in the dative, but it doesn't fit into a pre-existing declension paradigm, how would it appear? Is the name modified to fit Icelandic nominal morphology, or is some other method used?

I'd be interested in that as well. In Lithuanian, they stick Lithuanian endings on foreign names and even adapt the orthography to Lithuanian conventions, so that e.g. Bill Clinton is Viljamas Džefersonas „Bilas“ Klintonas. Checking the Icelandic wikipedia article on him shows no such adaptation - they just write "Bill Clinton", but perhaps vec can say whether this is the typical way for Icelandic to treat such names?

Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton, Bill Clinton, Bills Clinton, the bare minimum of declension required by the law. If someone wanted to name there child Bill, there is a slight chance it would be approved. Whereas his wife is identical in all cases: Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton. Her name is therefore not legal as an Icelandic name. Foreign names never have a dative ending.

[sangi39]

Interesting So what exactly is it about Harriet and Duncan that make them "illegal" (in relation to the Icelandic language, more than the naming laws)? I've been going through the Wikipedia article on Icelandic grammar, but it doesn't seem to be helping much (or I'm missing something). Is there something phonologically or orthographically "wrong" about them, or is it literally just that they don't appear on the approved list of names?

[vec]

The rulings for 2014 have not been published – they won't be until sometime next year – but based on past rulings I would assume the following:

Duncan does not contain any vowels that exist in the Icelandic sound system, is spelled with a C and there is no tradition for its use in Iceland.

Harriet is probably OK sound-wise but would probably have to be spelled with an í instead of the i in order to comply with spelling rules, it is unclear if it can take a genitive ending and there is no tradition for its use.

[linguoboy]

I thought there might be an Icelandic version of "Duncan" given the proximity of Scotland and the incorporation of other Gaelic names into Icelandic tradition (e.g. Dufþakur, Kjaran, Kormákur). And according to the list of Scottish kings in the Icelandic Wikipedia, it's Dungaður, which remains too close to the Gaelic version (Donnchadh) to be recognisable to an English-speaker.

[richard1631978]

I thought there might be an Icelandic version of "Duncan" given the proximity of Scotland and the incorporation of other Gaelic names into Icelandic tradition (e.g. Dufþakur, Kjaran, Kormákur). And according to the list of Scottish kings in the Icelandic Wikipedia, it's Dungaður, which remains too close to the Gaelic version (Donnchadh) to be recognisable to an English-speaker.

I did wonder if Duncan was known as a name in Iceland considering it's closeness to Scotland & historical links.

[vec]

Dungaður is not used by anyone.

[Kereb]

why can't Harriet and Duncan do like Chinese expats do and just be "Harriet" and "Duncan" in places that can handle those names, and pick completely unrelated names to use among the confused barbarians?
i mean in high school every other person was something like Ho Yin """""Gary""""" Ng, and the like

[vec]

Currently their official names are Drengur "boy" and Stúlka "girl" which are the automatic names given at birth by the national Registry. The problem here is that Registers Iceland is not legally permitted to issue a passport with somone registered under these two names.

[jmcd]

Dungaður is not used by anyone.

Sure, but it should be accepted by the authorities, shouldn't it? It would certainly more appropriate than calling him 'boy'.

[Shm Jay]

For "Harriet", does Icelandic have a feminine form for "Hinrik"?

[vec]

Hinrika.

[Clearsand]

Just can across this YouTube video, I thought this might relate to the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7THJoRYA2c

[GreenBowTie]

is there a commonly used Icelandic "version" of the name Michael?

[linguoboy]

Michael and Mikael both seem about equally popular nowadays, though from the charts it seems the former is on the downswing and the latter is trending upwards.

[Magb]

It's far from commonly used, but if you're looking for a more Icelandified version there's Mikjáll. It appears in some sagas and has a Wikipedia article: http://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikj%C3%A1ll, but it's very rare.