Benefits once an IAL has been established & spread

[12tn2]

Hi there! After a little searching, I believe there is no thread addressing this topic - while it's really important. So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language. The more the better. What I can think of for now are:
1. Can travel all around the world.
2. Can work anywhere, therefore:
3. Easier to relocate to your own paradise.
4. Spring the world economy, now that the wall of misunderstanding has collapsed.
5. Accelerate science and technology via better collaboration.
6. Encourage cross breeding among races and colors, and as a result reducing or even eliminate ethnic clashes (and on some scales, national conflicts).
Now it's your turn

[Nortaneous]

yurinob sui at fad

[Salmoneus]

Hi there! After a little searching, I believe there is no thread addressing this topic - while it's really important. So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language. The more the better. What I can think of for now are:
1. Can travel all around the world.
2. Can work anywhere, therefore:
3. Easier to relocate to your own paradise.

The only serious current barriers to travel and relocation are political, not linguistic. It's easy enough to just learn a new language, particularly since you can use English (or another major international language like Spanish or French) in the interrim.

4. Spring the world economy, now that the wall of misunderstanding has collapsed.
5. Accelerate science and technology via better collaboration.

There is no reason to think that the computers running the world economic system are in any way afflicted by linguistic 'misunderstanding' that damages the economy; I'm not even sure what such a 'misunderstanding' could look like.
Science and technology do benefit from an international language, whether that's Latin or German or English. But of course this language doesn't have to be used ouside of science and technology.

6. Encourage cross breeding among races and colors, and as a result reducing or even eliminate ethnic clashes (and on some scales, national conflicts).
Now it's your turn

I'm not sure "yay, eugenics!" is the best note to lead on, frankly. But that aside, is there any reason to think that the existence of multiple languages prevents inter-racial marriage? Or that national and ethnic clashes are based on not being able to understand what the other side is saying - rather than, say, fundamental economic conflicts of interest?

[Frislander]

Hi there! After a little searching, I believe there is no thread addressing this topic - while it's really important. So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language. The more the better. What I can think of for now are:
1. Can travel all around the world.
2. Can work anywhere, therefore:
3. Easier to relocate to your own paradise.

The only serious current barriers to travel and relocation are political, not linguistic. It's easy enough to just learn a new language, particularly since you can use English (or another major international language like Spanish or French) in the interrim.

4. Spring the world economy, now that the wall of misunderstanding has collapsed.
5. Accelerate science and technology via better collaboration.

There is no reason to think that the computers running the world economic system are in any way afflicted by linguistic 'misunderstanding' that damages the economy; I'm not even sure what such a 'misunderstanding' could look like.
Science and technology do benefit from an international language, whether that's Latin or German or English. But of course this language doesn't have to be used ouside of science and technology.

6. Encourage cross breeding among races and colors, and as a result reducing or even eliminate ethnic clashes (and on some scales, national conflicts).
Now it's your turn

I'm not sure "yay, eugenics!" is the best note to lead on, frankly. But that aside, is there any reason to think that the existence of multiple languages prevents inter-racial marriage? Or that national and ethnic clashes are based on not being able to understand what the other side is saying - rather than, say, fundamental economic conflicts of interest?

I agree with all of Sals points. With the first one, if you just have one place that you consider your 'paradise', why not just learn the local language, instead of some stupid middleman auxlang? Also with the last one, I would point to many civil wars of the last millenium or so (in Britain, American and Korea, to name but a few) as examples of conflicts where both sides can understand what they are saying still going to war, often bloodily.

[Axiem]

Y'all have forgotten the most important benefit of an established IAL: we can finally stamp out all of those little languages that show us the full potential of the human linguistic spirit. There's no need to think about things a different way ever again!

[Vijay]

Also, even native English-speakers would have to learn an established IAL. We'd no longer be able to rely on the expectation of the rest of the world learning our language as much as we do now.

[mèþru]

Also, I feel like the idea of intermarriage "solving" problems is stupid. First, being married to someone of a different background does not necessarily mean that you are not racist (especially considering the concept of hatred if one's one culture). The second is that while intermarriage can establish bonds between cultures, the children are often raised in only one culture and raise their own children in that culture, making the exchange a loss for one of the two cultures. This is why, for example, the very culturally liberal hilonim (secular Jews, but they are distinct in culture from secular Jews in other countries) in Israel feel uneasy about the high rate of intermarriage between secular Jews elsewhere in the world and non-Jews: the "minority" Jewish culture, even if cherished by one of the parents, is often abandoned by the children, who become indistinguishable from other people of their country.
IALs are mainly touted to solve non-issues. The resources needed to teach everyone IALs would be greater than or equal to the cost of the status quo.

[Vijay]

Also, I feel like the idea of intermarriage "solving" problems is stupid.

When I read this sentence, the first thing that leaped to mind for me was my dad pointing out that diabetes is widespread among Malayalee Syrian Christians precisely because we traditionally married only other Malayalee Syrian Christians, thereby exponentially increasing each successive generation's likelihood of getting diabetes. He's suggested a few times by now that it's a good thing that every married person in my generation has married someone from a completely different community (so far, no one has even married a South Indian or a Syrian Christian) because then the risk of the children from those marriages getting diabetes would be reduced.

[mèþru]

I'm not saying intermarriage is always bad or that all aspects are bad (I love cultural exchange and mutual understanding, for one). The vast majority of intermarriages, however, see some level of cultural erosion. (On the other extreme, there's all the "Irish" and "Italian" Americans, who maintain cultural links which barely exist and do not even understand the culture they claim to be a part of.)
I never really thought of non-social aspects of intermarriage.

[Nortaneous]

kikodo pämoükons oba stafädis? äspikob me IAL igo! admittedly it is not one that i can speak, but

[12tn2]

You all have really got some points there, which I will take into serious consideration. However, I don't intend to start a series of arguments (that stuff can wait at another thread to get addressed specifically). Please note the purpose of this thread is to list as much as possible, all the benefits that people will reap once an IAL has spread worldwide, not to discuss whether one particular benefit is right or wrong, practical or not. So, in this case I'd like to ask that we all imagine a utopia-like globe where every single person has at least 2 languages in his pocket: the native & the IAL. What's the differences between that world & our current one (again, please talk about benefits only)?

[Vijay]

I'm not saying intermarriage is always bad or that all aspects are bad (I love cultural exchange and mutual understanding, for one). The vast majority of intermarriages, however, see some level of cultural erosion. (On the other extreme, there's all the "Irish" and "Italian" Americans, who maintain cultural links which barely exist and do not even understand the culture they claim to be a part of.)
I never really thought of non-social aspects of intermarriage.

Oh, don't worry, my comment wasn't intended as a criticism (or really even an objection - I don't think intermarriage is something that "solves problems," either). I was just saying what it reminded me of off the top of my head. Sorry!

[mèþru]

More foreign arts and popular entertainment from countries with widespread multilingualism (such as India)? I am not really sure if people will take cultural products from "exotic" lands that well, and really doubt the benefits of IALs. This is a pretty difficult challenge!

[shanoxilt]

Hi there! After a little searching, I believe there is no thread addressing this topic - while it's really important. So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language.

While not a benefit per se, the fact that there is a grass roots consensus that is converging on the idea of a neutral, consciously and non-coercively chosen international language represents a moral and intellectual victory for the world.

It signifies that people are trying to be reasonable and co-operative with each other.

[esra]

Hi there! After a little searching, I believe there is no thread addressing this topic - while it's really important. So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language. The more the better. What I can think of for now are:
...
5. Accelerate science and technology via better collaboration.
...

That makes sense, I agree.

7. Documenting of endangered languages especially voice documents of native speaker. Its assumed that worldwide every 14 days some minority languages disappears. But it also needs to mentioned that languages can be revived (Hebrew). But without proper documenting no revival possible.

Swasti,

[Frislander]

Hi there! After a little searching, I believe there is no thread addressing this topic - while it's really important. So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language. The more the better. What I can think of for now are:
...
5. Accelerate science and technology via better collaboration.
...

That makes sense, I agree.

7. Documenting of endangered languages especially voice documents of native speaker. Its assumed that worldwide every 14 days some minority languages disappears. But it also needs to mentioned that languages can be revived (Hebrew). But without proper documenting no revival possible.

Another Does-not-follow. Endangered language documentation is already well underway in English/Spanish/Russian, and doesn't need to be completely transferred to some auxlang to become more efficient.

Further, "voice documents of native speakers" (by which I presume you mean voice recordings to obtain the phonetics of the language) are what the IPA is for. An auxlang is completely barking up the wrong tree here.

[gestaltist]

A benefit of an established IAL would be an influx of new languages for linguists to study: creoles of IAL with the various local languages for one, and when communities form where the IAL becomes L1, the inevitable diachronic change will mutate them into something new. And then, after a few centuries, people will be able to try to establish a new IAL since the old one won't be mutually comprehensible anymore. It will be a lot of fun.

[Frislander]

A benefit of an established IAL would be an influx of new languages for linguists to study: creoles of IAL with the various local languages for one, and when communities form where the IAL becomes L1, the inevitable diachronic change will mutate them into something new. And then, after a few centuries, people will be able to try to establish a new IAL since the old one won't be mutually comprehensible anymore. It will be a lot of fun.

True, that's an exciting prospect, but that runs completely counter to the main goals of an IAL.

[esra]

Further, "voice documents of native speakers" (by which I presume you mean voice recordings to obtain the phonetics of the language) are what the IPA is for.

"Clinical digital zero or one"-like IPA markup neither can map and convey playfullness and fuzziness of living languages nor language context interplay. Thats why for sure it needs video and audio recordings of native speakers to document regarding language that way someones could feel motivated to pick up and spread it again with some "soul inside".

[esra]

So let's start listing all the possible benefits of an international auxiliary language.

"An international auxiliary language" - Does it mean some only one IAL exclusiveness? Does your statement allow co-existence of dozen of IAL?

[12tn2]

While not a benefit per se, the fact that there is a grass roots consensus that is converging on the idea of a neutral, consciously and non-coercively chosen international language represents a moral and intellectual victory for the world.
It signifies that people are trying to be reasonable and co-operative with each other.

Exactly. IMHO, humans will reach that stage at about 40 years from now. It'll be the time for IAL to spread to major parts of the population. However, in order to do so, it'll have to start now, or a dozen years from now at the latest.

5. Accelerate science and technology via better collaboration.

That makes sense, I agree.
7. Documenting of endangered languages especially voice documents of native speaker. Its assumed that worldwide every 14 days some minority languages disappears. But it also needs to mentioned that languages can be revived. But without proper documenting no revival possible.
Swasti,

Yes, that may be another benefit. The documenting act itself is heavily relied on the dominating language in the region of the endangered language (for example, a local lang in Brazil will likely be documented in Portuguese; and those in India will usually get doc'ed in Hindi). With an IAL system established, there will be direct documenting to the universal lang, with no need to come through multiple-level translation.

A benefit of an established IAL would be an influx of new languages for linguists to study: creoles of IAL with the various local languages for one, and when communities form where the IAL becomes L1, the inevitable diachronic change will mutate them into something new. And then, after a few centuries, people will be able to try to establish a new IAL since the old one won't be mutually comprehensible anymore. It will be a lot of fun.

Well yeah, while being fun really, it's against the first principle of an IAL, as Frislander has pointed out. We'll have methods to prevent it from happening. In fact, Esperanto - while failed at the attempt to be a universal lang - is quite successful at keeping itself intact throughout the years.

"An international auxiliary language" - Does it mean some only one IAL exclusiveness? Does your statement allow co-existence of dozen of IAL?

I highly doubt the prospect of a dozen langs achieving the status of IAL. While the IAL itself is not prohibitive of other languages at all, the very way of it becoming an IAL is kind of a competitive race. History has shown that biased (non-neutral), unscientific... langs have failed here and there.

[Travis B.]

Why did I open this thread again?

[Neek]

Why did I open this thread again?

Because you're a glutton for punishment.

More foreign arts and popular entertainment from countries with widespread multilingualism (such as India)? I am not really sure if people will take cultural products from "exotic" lands that well, and really doubt the benefits of IALs. This is a pretty difficult challenge!

So what you're saying is, IALs can finally settle the age-old, dubbed or subbed conundrum that's been fought for generations.

[mèþru]

Only for films made in IALs though, not for films originally made in other languages.

[Neek]

Well obviously. Anything made pre-IAL (International Anime Language or International Arts Language) would still fall under dub-or-sub continuity. We'll simply eliminate it going forward.