The Innovative Usage Thread

[jmcd]

seems pretty unlikely jmcd given that a) I'm pretty sure that usage is archaic at best

Point b ok but I've known people my own generation (now mid 20s) that use it.

[Imralu]

Your British friend has been in America (Australia??? idk about the distribution of pants or imralus) too long, I think.

Germany (see below my profile pic), and yeah ... if no one ever talks about a long form of "shorts" in Britain, then maybe her only exposure to a longer form is from US TV ...

[Vijay]

Apparently, in Indian English, "Sunday is longer than Monday" is a jocular euphemism used to tell someone they're wearing their clothes wrong, including "your fly's open." I've tried asking my parents where that came from, and none of us seems to have any idea.

[Zaarin]

Something odd I noticed about my own speech recently is that I believe I pronounce /k/ as [k͡x] utterance-finally and word-initially before /ɹ/; the former seems to be somewhat inconsistent, but the latter seems to be more general.

[jal]

Something odd I noticed about my own speech recently is that I believe I pronounce /k/ as [k͡x] utterance-finally and word-initially before /ɹ/; the former seems to be somewhat inconsistent, but the latter seems to be more general.

Is it really [k͡x], or is it more like [kʼ], with some residual friction?


JAL

[Zaarin]

Something odd I noticed about my own speech recently is that I believe I pronounce /k/ as [k͡x] utterance-finally and word-initially before /ɹ/; the former seems to be somewhat inconsistent, but the latter seems to be more general.

Is it really [k͡x], or is it more like [kʼ], with some residual friction?


JAL

Reanalyzing it, I'm positive that word-initially before /ɹV/ it is [k͡x], but utterance-finally after a vowel it's something like [ʔkˣ].

[jal]

eanalyzing it, I'm positive that word-initially before /ɹV/ it is [k͡x], but utterance-finally after a vowel it's something like [ʔkˣ].

Well, I'm no phonologist, and you may be right, but I'm not sure whether it's that easy to distinguish [kʰɹ] from [k͡xɹ]. Same for [ʔkʰ] vs. [ʔk͡x] vs. [ʔkʼ].


JAL

[Frislander]

I recently caught my mother using the term 'headless-chickening' (no prizes for guessing what it means). Just another example of noun/verb fluidity in English.

[jal]

I recently caught my mother using the term 'headless-chickening' (no prizes for guessing what it means). Just another example of noun/verb fluidity in English.

Walking around like a headless chicken?


JAL

[Vijay]

I recently realized that another place where I find innovative usages of English from time to time is songs by non-native speakers of English, including songs that aren't in English but include a short phrase in English or something. For example, this song in a language from northeastern India includes the words "spicial thank" in the credits at the end (visible from 5:06 to 5:12), and this one in another sounds like it includes the words "I have surrender for you" (1:41-1:48).

Sometimes, I come across songs with examples of English that are difficult for me to even make sense of. For example, this song (in a third language, again from northeastern India!) has subtitles I've never really managed to understand. Possibly the most puzzling line is the one translated as "It exhausted being adopting life tracks." Even the video description has some innovative usages:

"You Came Into My Life Like An Angel,
May be The Only Ray Of Hope
That Shone From The Horizon,
But Now Look At Me…
You Sacked Every
Shred Of Happiness In Me When You Left,

Finally, there's this song in English, but by non-native speakers from southwestern Maluku Province in Indonesia (near East Timor). (In that last song, Kisar, Roma, Damer, Wetar, Serwaru, Ndona Hiera, and Letwurung are all place names, and kalwedo is a traditional greeting in this part of Indonesia).

[linguoboy]

Before this year, I don't remember ever in my life being addressed with "Mister" + given name except in jest. But now that I'm spending so much time in hospitals, it's happening regularly. Only a minority of staff address me this way, but those who do are very consistent. There doesn't seem to be any unifying characteristic (all genders, both native and non-native speakers, age range from 20s to over 60, etc.). It could be partly on account of my (seemingly complex but actually simple to pronounce) surname; they're more consistent about using my husband's (common Scottish) surname, which is also used as a given name and very similar to his given name.

Anyone else encountred this?

[Vijay]

Some of my classmates in sixth grade did address me with "Mister" + given name in the context of a chant I'm too embarrassed to recount even now, sixteen years later. I don't know whether I've ever been in a situation that felt more bizarre to me. They were three girls, and they appeared to be flirting with me, but I still don't know whether they were doing that as a joke or not. What reaction were they even trying to get out of me? Were they trying to get me to flirt back? Were they hoping I wouldn't? Were they trying to make me feel embarrassed? Because if it's that last one, they sure succeeded.

There's the extra complication in my case that people are sometimes confused about which is my first name and which is my last, since a lot of people don't realize that there are people with "John" as a last name. So people might have addressed me as "Mister" + given name in some cases simply because they thought my given name was my last name (I can't recall any specific instances, though).

[Zaarin]

Only in jest. I did have a college professor who addressed her students as Mr./Ms. [Surname], which I thought was a little odd given my other professors used given names, but she was quite old-fashioned in a lot of ways (I mean that respectfully--she was one of my favorite professors) and was very formal. I've actually always hated being called "Mister"--in part because I don't like the sound of it aesthetically, in part because I don't like my surname, and in part because I have a strong (one might even say extreme) aversion to being addressed by name by strangers (who are the most likely to use "mister").

[hwhatting]

I've been frequently addressed as Mr. Hans by non-native speakers of English from cultures where addressing elders or superiors by first name is not usual but it would be usual in Anglo-Saxon culture to use my first name. I can't remember ever being addressed that way by a native speaker of English.

[Axiem]

We are teaching our children that they should use "Mister/Miss FirstName" for adults, but just "FirstName" for their peers. So my friend John is "Mister John" to them. It's something that's not entirely uncommon around the Midwest, and according to my wife was extremely prevalent growing up in New Orleans. It doesn't sound particularly odd or strange to me at all, just somewhere in formality between "FirstName" and "Mister/Miss LastName".

[linguoboy]

We are teaching our children that they should use "Mister/Miss FirstName" for adults, but just "FirstName" for their peers. So my friend John is "Mister John" to them. It's something that's not entirely uncommon around the Midwest, and according to my wife was extremely prevalent growing up in New Orleans. It doesn't sound particularly odd or strange to me at all, just somewhere in formality between "FirstName" and "Mister/Miss LastName".

I grew up in the Midwest and it's super odd to me. We called all adults we knew either by title + last name or kinship term + given name. (The lone exception was one of my mother's single college friends.) Title + given name is actually a form of address I associate with servants, which makes it sound obsequious.

[Axiem]

We are teaching our children that they should use "Mister/Miss FirstName" for adults, but just "FirstName" for their peers. So my friend John is "Mister John" to them. It's something that's not entirely uncommon around the Midwest, and according to my wife was extremely prevalent growing up in New Orleans. It doesn't sound particularly odd or strange to me at all, just somewhere in formality between "FirstName" and "Mister/Miss LastName".

I grew up in the Midwest and it's super odd to me. We called all adults we knew either by title + last name or kinship term + given name. (The lone exception was one of my mother's single college friends.) Title + given name is actually a form of address I associate with servants, which makes it sound obsequious.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not that I think the Midwest is a particularly uniform place, culture-wise, so I probably shouldn't have generalized against it. We probably just have different experiences.

[finlay]

My Japanese students overgeneralize Mr because of the way san is used, so occasionally I have to teach them it sounds strange with first names. That said, they're generally unfamiliar with using first names in the first place.

[alynnidalar]

Hrm, here in Michigan, the only times I can recall being referred to as Miss [firstname] was with small children if a parent/teacher is trying to get them to be polite... e.g. "ask Miss [firstname] for a cookie" or something like that. I suspect the reason they go with Miss [firstname] instead of Miss [lastname] is because I'm still in my early 20s. (personally, I don't really care what little kids call me, I couldn't care less if they call me just [firstname]) Even when I was in elementary school, all of my teachers were Miss/Mrs./Ms. [lastname], and my sister (who has taught second and fifth grade) is Miss [lastname] as well. (except for when they overgeneralize to Mrs. [lastname], but she tries to straighten them out)

That being said, I wouldn't find it odd for a kid to call me Miss [firstname]... but I would definitely find it noticeable if an adult called me that. It feels a little childish, although that may be compounded by me being a Miss, which can feel young in and of itself. (in writing, I prefer Ms., but I pronounce it /mɪs/ either way)

The implications/social usage are undoubtedly different between women and men, though.

[Travis B.]

We are teaching our children that they should use "Mister/Miss FirstName" for adults, but just "FirstName" for their peers. So my friend John is "Mister John" to them. It's something that's not entirely uncommon around the Midwest, and according to my wife was extremely prevalent growing up in New Orleans. It doesn't sound particularly odd or strange to me at all, just somewhere in formality between "FirstName" and "Mister/Miss LastName".

I grew up in the Midwest and it's super odd to me. We called all adults we knew either by title + last name or kinship term + given name. (The lone exception was one of my mother's single college friends.) Title + given name is actually a form of address I associate with servants, which makes it sound obsequious.

I in particular I associate the use of title + last name with referring to teachers, professors, and doctors. Other than that I am used to people referring to people they know almost exclusively by an abbreviated first name, without Mister or Miss, including when speaking to superiors.

[linguoboy]

Transitive surface, e.g. "I'm looking forward to an engaging dialogue with the field, even if it surfaces some discomfort." [As the quote suggests, this is probably more corporate jargon. At least, I first heard it at work.]

[Zaarin]

Mildly odd but not extremely so. It does sound very corporate, though.

[Sumelic]

Has anybody heard or used a pronunciation with /ʒ/ in words ending in "-lsion," such as "propulsion," "convulsion," "expulsion"? I just realized today that I hesitate between /ʒ/ and /ʃ/ in this environment. I did a bit of research, and it looks like /ʃ/ is far more common; I haven't found any references to pronunciations with /ʒ/ being used by anyone else. A similar voicing change after /r/ though (in words like "version," "conversion," "immersion") is well-established (in general and also in my own speech). It might just be me; I know I've acquired other pronunciations with innovative voicing like this (I used to tend to use /z/ in the words "conserve," "conservative" and "conservation").

[Axiem]

Has anybody heard or used a pronunciation with /ʒ/ in words ending in "-lsion," such as "propulsion," "convulsion," "expulsion"? I just realized today that I hesitate between /ʒ/ and /ʃ/ in this environment. I did a bit of research, and it looks like /ʃ/ is far more common; I haven't found any references to pronunciations with /ʒ/ being used by anyone else. A similar voicing change after /r/ though (in words like "version," "conversion," "immersion") is well-established (in general and also in my own speech). It might just be me; I know I've acquired other pronunciations with innovative voicing like this (I used to tend to use /z/ in the words "conserve," "conservative" and "conservation").

I use /ʒ/ in "convulsion" and "revision", but /ʃ/ in "propulsion" and "expulsion".

[Vijay]

I use /ʒ/ in all of those.