Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Substantial postings about constructed languages and constructed worlds in general. Good place to mention your own or evaluate someone else's. Put quick questions in C&C Quickies instead.
Post Reply
User avatar
alice
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:43 pm
Location: Three of them

Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by alice »

(Note: any resemblance to any existing script, real or fictional, printed or handwritten, is pure coincidence and exists soleley within the mind of the reader.)

The script is called Serali (and why the hell not? "pritiskripti" is too long, and I can't think of anything else at the moment), after the scribe who codified and reorganised several other scripts which were formerly in use. It is perhaps a sort of semi-featural syllabary, and takes advantage of the phonology of the slightly archaic and formalised Rachovian for which it was designed. The permitted syllable structures were largely restricted to (s)CV and (s)TRV, where C = any consonant, T = any stop, R = one of /l r v/, and V is any vowel; moreover, some consonants were found only before front vowels and others only before back vowels. (If you know Slavonic historical linguistics, this is comparable to the state of Proto-Slavonic just before the changes in vowel length.)

In its purest form, Serali is written horizontally from left to right within four parallel equally-spaced straight lines. Each grapheme consists of one of nineteen bodies, which are written between the middle two lines, and one of several tails, which descend to the lowest line; additionally it may also take a crest, which typically rises to the highest line. The body represents the principal consonant in the onset (C or T above), and the tail represents the vowel of the coda. Some bodies represent different phonemes before front and back vowels.

The crest represents consonant clusters in the onset. This takes the form of a circle for a preceding /s/, which is written next to and not above the body, left and right hooks for following /l/ and /r/, and a loop for following /v/. Where there are three consonants, the crests are combined. Some combinations of crest and body have conventional representations, as shown; the one for /sv/ is informally known as "donkey", for obvious reasons. The overline for /n/ is only used with the bodies for /k g x v/ and occasionally /s/.

Image

The tails mostly come in pairs in which the clockwise member represents a back vowel and the anticlockwise member represents the corresponding front vowel; the combination of the tail for /e/ and the body for /k/ thus represents /ʧe/, since /ke/ and /ʧa/ did not occur. The various different tails for long vowels represent the continuations of different scribal traditions, and are all officially sanctioned, although the first of each group is preferred. The exceptions are the tails for /ju:/ and /y:/; /y:/ is a back-central unrounded vowel from older /u:/, and /u:/ is the only vowel before which can follow both palatalised and unpalatalised consonants (from /eu/ and /ou/ respectively). Note that the long nasals each have four possible tails; this is a consequence of the fact that these phonemes were quite rare. Note too that Serali does not represent the pitch distinctions on long vowels.

Image

Because Rachovian is currently undergoing revision, I've chosen to use Old Church Slavonic for the samples, except for two of them which are in Czech; identifying their sources is left an an exercise for the reader, as is finding the mistakes which I've deliberately left in :-) Characters for the long nasal vowels are thus not necessary, nor are those for /f/ and /ɣ/. The fit is, unsurprisingly, very close for the consonants, although a couple of cheats are necessary; in particular note the special body for /kt/ and the use of /j/ before initial front vowels. The vowels are slightly trickier; long /i e a u/ represent i ě a u, and their short counterparts represent ь e o ъ.

Image
Image
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.

User avatar
Zaarin
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:00 pm

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Zaarin »

I like it. :) (And no, it looks nothing like Tengwar--reminds me more of Armenian, actually.)
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

User avatar
WeepingElf
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:00 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by WeepingElf »

I like it too - and it doesn't look like Tengwar at all.
...brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A

Arzakon
Niš
Niš
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:13 am

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Arzakon »

It's a good script, it does not feel like tengwar.

User avatar
Arzena
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 240
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:19 pm
Location: ¡California, Tejas, Marruecos!

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Arzena »

The stop series reminds me of Tengwar but the rest of the characters carry a unique feel to them and do not remind me of it.

And Serali, now that's a name I haven't heard in a while !
A New Yorker wrote:Isn't it sort of a relief to talk about the English Premier League instead of the sad state of publishing?
Abi wrote:At this point it seems pretty apparent that PIE was simply an ancient esperanto gone awry.
Shtåså, Empotle7á, Neire Wippwo

User avatar
garysk
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:14 pm
Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by garysk »

Nice script! Reminds me of Voynich Ms.
(Avatar is an electric motor consisting of a bit of wire, a couple of paper clips,
two neodymium magnets, and a pair of AA batteries. A very cute demo of
minimal technology, and likewise completely useless for any practical purpose.)

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Frislander »

The most important difference between this and Tengwar is that this is actually feasible as a writing system in real life.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by mèþru »

The name + mention of Tengwar reminded me of Tolkien's Sarati script.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

User avatar
alice
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 707
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 4:43 pm
Location: Three of them

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by alice »

Thanks for the nice words, people. Especially:
Frislander wrote:The most important difference between this and Tengwar is that this is actually feasible as a writing system in real life.
Ha! Tengwar, for all its visual elegance, has always struck me as more decorative than practical.

(Nobody's found the mistakes yet???)
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.

User avatar
elemtilas
Sanci
Sanci
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:09 pm

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by elemtilas »

alice wrote:Image
Image
Serali --- definitely a name to conjure with! And a bit of an homage to her better angels, perhaps.

No, this script doesn't remind me at all of Tengwar. Obviously many letter forms look like Cyrillic or Roman or Greek letters.

It reminds me more of Cambodian or Vietnamese on steroids with all the little bits sticking above and below the central figure. :)
Image

User avatar
Curlyjimsam
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:57 am
Location: Elsewhere
Contact:

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Curlyjimsam »

If anything it looks less like Tengwar than several real-world scripts do!

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Frislander »

Curlyjimsam wrote:If anything it looks less like Tengwar than several real-world scripts do!
Like Cham.
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by mèþru »

Frislander wrote:
Curlyjimsam wrote:If anything it looks less like Tengwar than several real-world scripts do!
Like Cham.
Gahhh! My eyes!
(I feel similarly about Burmese. Perhaps they influenced each other?)
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

User avatar
Frislander
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:34 am
Location: The North

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Frislander »

mèþru wrote:
Frislander wrote:
Curlyjimsam wrote:If anything it looks less like Tengwar than several real-world scripts do!
Like Cham.
Gahhh! My eyes!
(I feel similarly about Burmese. Perhaps they influenced each other?)
Actually I'm not so fazed about Burmese, but yeah, Cham. :-D
https://frislander.tumblr.com/

First known on here as Karero

User avatar
Zaarin
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:00 pm

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Zaarin »

mèþru wrote:
Frislander wrote:
Curlyjimsam wrote:If anything it looks less like Tengwar than several real-world scripts do!
Like Cham.
Gahhh! My eyes!
(I feel similarly about Burmese. Perhaps they influenced each other?)
How could you dislike such a lovely script? Granted, the fact that it's a bunch of seemingly arbitrary squiggly shapes would make it an absolute nightmare to learn, but as far as just looking at it on a page without attempting comprehension it is aesthetically pleasing. :p
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by mèþru »

It's not the squiggles, it is the lack of everything else.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

User avatar
Zaarin
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:00 pm

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Zaarin »

To be honest, I love curvy cursive scripts. Syriac (Estrangelo but especially Serto) is my favorite real-world script, and while I think the language itself is ugly I adore the D'ni script.
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”

User avatar
mèþru
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 1984
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:44 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by mèþru »

Syriac's not bad. My favourite scripts is a tough competition between Elder Futhark and Hangul.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť

Vijay
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 3:25 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: Does it look like Tengwar? You, the reader, may decide!

Post by Vijay »

I've seen Cham script before more than once, but oddly, the letter for /a/ reminded me of the Tigalari script's equivalent.

Post Reply