The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
It is interesting that you often affricate /t/ before /ər/ even when no syncope takes place, especially since, IIRC, you are a non-native speaker of English, and to my knowledge no standard variety of English has this.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Well, if the /ər/ is realized as a rhotic vowel (and apparently it is), it's no wonder the preceding /t/ assimilates to that.Travis B. wrote:It is interesting that you often affricate /t/ before /ər/ even when no syncope takes place, especially since, IIRC, you are a non-native speaker of English, and to my knowledge no standard variety of English has this.
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Yes, but in less conservative but standard NAE /tər/ and /dər/ still do not affricate or palatalize, only /tr/ and /dr/ affricate and palatalize. (More conservative NAE does not affricate /tr/ or /dr/, or affricates them as retroflex rather than palatoalveolar.)Pole, the wrote:Well, if the /ər/ is realized as a rhotic vowel (and apparently it is), it's no wonder the preceding /t/ assimilates to that.Travis B. wrote:It is interesting that you often affricate /t/ before /ər/ even when no syncope takes place, especially since, IIRC, you are a non-native speaker of English, and to my knowledge no standard variety of English has this.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I didn't know where to put this, but one anecdote from my work was in a group of a bunch of people I said Rio, the name of the project I am working on, pronounced as [ˈʁʷiːo(ː)] several times, and every single time the people in the group all thought I was saying real, indicating that they all heard it as l-vocalization.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
OMFG, I've just watched gen. McMaster speak and apparently he unironically says 'America' as [ə̆'mɚkə], wtf!? I'd always thought Merka was an invented spelling used to mock hurr-durr type of patriots and I had never actually heard it before.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
In fast, casual conversation it's not uncommon for me to say something like [ə̆'mɚɨkə].Io wrote:OMFG, I've just watched gen. McMaster speak and apparently he unironically says 'America' as [ə̆'mɚkə], wtf!? I'd always thought Merka was an invented spelling used to mock hurr-durr type of patriots and I had never actually heard it before.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
It could be related to what Wikipedia describes as the "merry-Murray merger" that was historically a feature of accents in some regions like Philadelphia. Or it might just be an unrelated example of the common process of irregular shortenings and simplifications in commonly used place-names.Io wrote:OMFG, I've just watched gen. McMaster speak and apparently he unironically says 'America' as [ə̆'mɚkə], wtf!? I'd always thought Merka was an invented spelling used to mock hurr-durr type of patriots and I had never actually heard it before.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Travis B. wrote:It is interesting that you often affricate /t/ before /ər/ even when no syncope takes place, especially since, IIRC, you are a non-native speaker of English, and to my knowledge no standard variety of English has this.
Maybe the most accurate way of describing it would be, for example, [ˈsɪs.tʰɹ̥ɚ]. That is, the [t] releases directly into a first voiceless, then voiced, rhothic vowel and the placement of the tongue produces an ever so slight hissing noise after the release.Travis B. wrote:Yes, but in less conservative but standard NAE /tər/ and /dər/ still do not affricate or palatalize, only /tr/ and /dr/ affricate and palatalize. (More conservative NAE does not affricate /tr/ or /dr/, or affricates them as retroflex rather than palatoalveolar.)Pole, the wrote:Well, if the /ər/ is realized as a rhotic vowel (and apparently it is), it's no wonder the preceding /t/ assimilates to that.Travis B. wrote:It is interesting that you often affricate /t/ before /ər/ even when no syncope takes place, especially since, IIRC, you are a non-native speaker of English, and to my knowledge no standard variety of English has this.
Meine Muttersprache ist Deutsch. My second language is English. Olim discēbam Latinam. Sú ginévam Jagárhvejak. Opiskelen Suomea. Un ek kür en lütten Tick Platt.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
gallant
Where's the stress? And does it vary according to syntax, semantics, or both?
Where's the stress? And does it vary according to syntax, semantics, or both?
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Loss of schwa after /r/ is commonplace in the US, as I understand it - c.f. Bush's distinction between "merkins" and "tourists".Io wrote:OMFG, I've just watched gen. McMaster speak and apparently he unironically says 'America' as [ə̆'mɚkə], wtf!? I'd always thought Merka was an invented spelling used to mock hurr-durr type of patriots and I had never actually heard it before.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
- Salmoneus
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- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
It varies according to semantics and possibly pragmatics.linguoboy wrote:gallant
Where's the stress? And does it vary according to syntax, semantics, or both?
The era and things associated with it are stressed on the second syllable (and often spelled differently). The chivalrous behaviour is typically stressed on the first syllable. However, if I were being particularly mocking (affectionately or otherwise), or old-fashioned, or... ornate... then I'd stress the second syllable. Whether this is a pragmatic change (indicating a more playful register) or a semantic one (referring to a slighty different, more archaic and incongruous set of behaviours) is something I'm not really sure of, off the top of my head.
I suppose, to put it in specifics, i'd be more likely to stress the final syllable if I were talking about a man being ostentatiously chivalrous to a woman, particularly with romantic intentions, while I'd be more likely to stress the initial syllable if I were talking about someone being, say, brave (possibly there's contamination here with the noun, gallantry, which is usually about couragous action). But again, since I'd be talking about, say, someone opening a door for a woman, on the one hand, and someone charging a machine gun, on the other, in typically very different circumstances, I'm not sure to what extent that's semantic and how much is pragmatic.
I'd also probably stress the second syllable if I were using it to mean 'foppish', but again, since that would be mocking it may be pragmatic.
Likewise, the noun for a person is usually initial stress, but could be second if i were talking about a fop or a lech or the like.
The sail I would pronounce with initial stress, but I'm not sure I've ever actually said it outloud.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
It wasn't uncommon back in 1950s either — when Stanisław Lem wrote the (later auto-apocryphal) “Twenty-Sixth Voyage”, parodying the US as „Merka” (and also New York as „Niuouk” and the A-bomb as „Ejbom”).Salmoneus wrote:Loss of schwa after /r/ is commonplace in the US, as I understand it - c.f. Bush's distinction between "merkins" and "tourists".
The conlanger formerly known as “the conlanger formerly known as Pole, the”.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
If we don't study the mistakes of the future we're doomed to repeat them for the first time.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I always pronounce gallant on the first syllable; and to me it is only an adjective.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Speaking of which, temp'rature or temper'ture?Salmoneus wrote:Loss of schwa after /r/ is commonplace in the US, as I understand it - c.f. Bush's distinction between "merkins" and "tourists".
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
For me gallant is always stressed on the second-syllable, probably because I was habitually corrected for stressing the initial syllable...linguoboy wrote:gallant
Where's the stress? And does it vary according to syntax, semantics, or both?
temper'turelinguoboy wrote:Speaking of which, temp'rature or temper'ture?Salmoneus wrote:Loss of schwa after /r/ is commonplace in the US, as I understand it - c.f. Bush's distinction between "merkins" and "tourists".
"But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?”
- Salmoneus
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
The former. The latter sounds really bizarre ('tempacha') - probably because losing the second schwa would mean losing the /r/ entirely for me.linguoboy wrote:Speaking of which, temp'rature or temper'ture?Salmoneus wrote:Loss of schwa after /r/ is commonplace in the US, as I understand it - c.f. Bush's distinction between "merkins" and "tourists".
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I have temp'rature. I also have /frə/ for the prefix for- in informal speech.
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
What do you have for these then?Travis B. wrote:I have temp'rature. I also have /frə/ for the prefix for- in informal speech.
forget
forgotten
forgive
forgave
forsake
forsook
forbid
forbade
forcast
fret
forlorn
For myself:
forget [fə'gɛt̚]
forgot [fə'gɔt̚]
forgive [fə'gɪv]
forgave [fə'gɛɪ̯v]
forsake [fə'sɛɪ̯k]
forsook [fə'sʊk]
forbid [fə'bɪd̚]
forbade [fə'bɛɪ̯d̚]
fret [fɻɛt̚]
forlorn [fəlõːn]
for Pete's sake [fə pʰɪi̯t‿sɛɪ̯k]
Native: English || Pretty decent: Ancient Greek || Alright: Ancient Hebrew || Eh: Welsh || Basic: Mandarin Chinese || Very basic: French, Latin, Nisuese, Apsish
Conlangs: Nisuese, Apsish, Kaptaran, Pseudo-Ligurian
Conlangs: Nisuese, Apsish, Kaptaran, Pseudo-Ligurian
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
I have [ɚ] in all those cases (perhaps better represented as [ɻ] in the case of fret).
The only interesting variation I have is the vowel /o/ in the first syllable of forlorn and optionally in forms of forsake. Those words belong to a formal register for me, so reducing the first vowel sounds odd (and with forlorn, actually incorrect).
(BTW, you dropped forcast [sic] from your list. I'm assuming you have initial stress and a full vowel there, just as I do?)
The only interesting variation I have is the vowel /o/ in the first syllable of forlorn and optionally in forms of forsake. Those words belong to a formal register for me, so reducing the first vowel sounds odd (and with forlorn, actually incorrect).
(BTW, you dropped forcast [sic] from your list. I'm assuming you have initial stress and a full vowel there, just as I do?)
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
forget [fʁəːˈgɜʔ]
forgotten [fʁəːˈgaʔn̩(ː)]
forgive [fʁəːˈgɘːf]
forgave [fʁəːˈgeːf]
forsake [fɔʁˈseʔk]
forsook [fɔʁˈsʲʉ̯ʊʔk]
forbid [fʁəːˈbɘːt]
forbade [fʁəːˈbeːt]
forbidden [fʁəːˈbɘːnː~fʁəːˈbɘːːn]
forecast [ˌfɔʁˈkʰɛsʲtʲ]
fret [fʁɜʔ]
forlorn [fɔːʁˈʟ̞ɔ̃(ː)ʁ̃(n)~fɔːʁˈɰɔ̃(ː)ʁ̃(n)]
forgotten [fʁəːˈgaʔn̩(ː)]
forgive [fʁəːˈgɘːf]
forgave [fʁəːˈgeːf]
forsake [fɔʁˈseʔk]
forsook [fɔʁˈsʲʉ̯ʊʔk]
forbid [fʁəːˈbɘːt]
forbade [fʁəːˈbeːt]
forbidden [fʁəːˈbɘːnː~fʁəːˈbɘːːn]
forecast [ˌfɔʁˈkʰɛsʲtʲ]
fret [fʁɜʔ]
forlorn [fɔːʁˈʟ̞ɔ̃(ː)ʁ̃(n)~fɔːʁˈɰɔ̃(ː)ʁ̃(n)]
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
cishet: [ˈsɘsˌhɜʔ], followed by a vowel [ˈsɘsˌhɜɾ].
Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
/sɪsˈhɛʔ/ I think, although I've written it significantly more than I've spoken it. I definitely stress the last syllable, but I'm not sure why.
I generally forget to say, so if it's relevant and I don't mention it--I'm from Southern Michigan and speak Inland North American English. Yes, I have the Northern Cities Vowel Shift; no, I don't have the cot-caught merger; and it is called pop.
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Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
[junəkɚn]linguoboy wrote:"cishet"
Re: The "How do You Pronounce X" Thread
Word-Initially, just not in Xylophone: /z/ (Ex: [zinofobia])
Intervocallically and Unstressed: /gz/ (Ex. [ɤgzampl])
None of the above: /ks/ (Ex. [eks])
wait...
Intervocallically and Unstressed: /gz/ (Ex. [ɤgzampl])
None of the above: /ks/ (Ex. [eks])
wait...