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zompist bboard • View topic - Many people apparently think there's a [g] sound in "ng" wor

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:00 pm 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:08 pm 
Avisaru
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Yeah, that's what happens when you teach the writing system without discussing phonetics. See also "English has five vowels" and other similar issues.

Also there are dialects which do pronounce a [g] in those words, generally concentrated around Lancashire, Cheshire and Merseyside (my mother uses that pronunciation for example).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Just going to leave this here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelling_pronunciation


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:46 pm 
Sanno
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It's not a spelling pronunciation.

It's also not quite as simple as "thinking there's a /g/ because there's a [g]". Most people do not, for instance, believe there to be /b/ in "debt", or /s/ in "island".

The problem arises in this particular case because people know that there's not just an /n/ in these words - "sing" and "sin" aren't homophones, for instance. But because they have no words (or concepts) to describe the /N/ sound - and because, to be fair, the /N/ sound does sound a bit /g/-ish - they can only describe /N/ as being /n/ plus /g/, as it's spelled (and sort of sounds). So if you tell them there's no /g/, they get confused, because they know there's not just /n/, and they don't have the conscious concept of /N/ as an alternative for what might be there.

After all, if you "drop the G" from "walking", you get "walkin'", with an /n/... it's got an apostrophe and everything! And surely if 'dropping the G' were just turning something from /N/ to /n/ - a change with no loss of elements or gain in simplicity - then it wouldn't be such a common indicator of lazy speech!?

[similarly, some people think there's an /h/ in /S/ and /T/. But this is less common, probably because we don't have any productive, shibbolethical "dropping the H" process].

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:55 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:44 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:28 am 
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I've seen "t'ing" for "thing", but in the context of Caribbean kitsch

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:27 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:34 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:54 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:56 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:35 am 
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It's transcribed into Japanese as /ng/ (or /ngu/ at the end of words :roll: ) - at least for English, but not for Chinese and Korean. It's one pronunciation "error" the Japanese make that I've never really bothered correcting in lessons, as it doesn't impact their English much, and they might even have positive reinforcement of that pronunciation from some people. (like my coworker from Manchester who I'm pretty sure says the /g/)

Where it becomes a problem is actually for /n/ and /m/ at the end of words in English, as the Japanese coda-/n/ (ん) is underspecified for POA and actually sounds like [ɴ] or [ŋ] a lot of the time. It becomes [n] before other coronals and [m] before bilabials, but can also be [m] at the end of utterances, if the person closes their mouth after speaking for example, and before vowels it sounds downright weird, like a nasalization plus glide. And if they take this as an L2 error into English it can be difficult to understand.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:25 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:46 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:04 am 
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