Mmm. Very close match with what I had pictured based on Dewrad's original work. I see only two things that might call for some revision, depending on what the approximate dates for those maps are: firstly, the Steppe diaspora should expand very quickly early on, filling up a lot more of the steppe zone in early maps and expanding more gradually in later times. Second, the wing of them that lands in the Xsali plain should 1. extend to cover most of the central plain early on, and 2. no longer exist a millennium later, except for the Tjakori outpost. The Western incursions into Xsalad might be compared to the Hyksos invasions of Egypt - they set themselves up as rulers for a couple centuries, but they were too few, and too far from their centers of power, to maintain control over a large hostile population.cedh audmanh wrote:I have done a little bit of mapping today, visualizing a tentative scenario for the spread of western languages.
Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")
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Radius Solis
- Smeric
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Salmoneus
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Re immediately-preceding post: but of course they could still have found some less-fertile corner of the plain to settle down themselves!
Re preceding pages: Bloody hell! I take my eye off this for one day, after a year of slow crawling, and everything's gone and happened behind my back!
Re preceding pages: Bloody hell! I take my eye off this for one day, after a year of slow crawling, and everything's gone and happened behind my back!
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
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Salmoneus
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- Location: One of the dark places of the world
Ok, some comments:
Legion's ideas:
1. I don't buy the original lunatic emperor idea, given the time period. And let's also remember that they don't have to have civilisation as early as the East - the East had a 2000-year dark age! That's plenty of time for civilisation to have developed in the West. I think it's a bit weird having too similar a timeline on either side.
2. Evil Empire. HOWEVER - I've always thought of the West as closer to Europe... and a civilisation that was a cross between Europe and, say, the Aztecs might well be interesting. That is, one that develops fairly enlightened views but still has human sacrifice...
3. Let's start at the beginning and work forward.
The other plans:
1. My original plan was for the Steppe language to be non-Western (either a single family or from the north). It doesn't really matter, though - by the time of civilisation, a Steppe family would be fairly non-Western anyway, particular with substratal influence.
2. How I would break it the family down:
Phase One: the family settles around the whole of the eastern bay.
Phase Two: The western and southern edges slowly expand.
Phase Three: A central group explodes over the steppe
Phase Four: the Western sub-family covers the southern coast; civilisation develops
Phase Five: the steppe nomads come visiting and take over parts of the south coast.
This would give us four groups:
a) southern desert languages
b) the western coastal family - originally extending along the south coast
c) the steppe family - not only the steppe but also large parts of the south coast where they have conquered
d) the residual people on the eastern west coast (the homeland), who are more diverse in their languages.
This isn't far off Cedh's map. I would suggest not having the dark-blue family expand as far up the coast, and have the light-blue family expand further inland in their nations, but be broken up by some steppe nations (like our Hungarians, and historically our Avars and Scythians and Bulgarians).
I would also add the proviso that the area marked for the steppe family not be "the steppe family" but be a patchwork not only of subfamilies but also of other families. If we look at our own steppe, we see a series of multiethnic and probably multilingual confederations of tribes - one language might dominate, but the smaller groups may have their own language. Hence the Hungarians survive with their Ugric language despite millenia of subservience to Turkic, Tungusic, Iranic and maybe Mongolic tribes. Likewise there will probably be other people in the Western steppe.
----------------
On a mapping note: the climate map I did there doesn't mention that there's a north-south mountain chain and a west-east sea inlet in that steppe area, which will help to delimit Western expansion both across the steppe and along the coast, I think.
Legion's ideas:
1. I don't buy the original lunatic emperor idea, given the time period. And let's also remember that they don't have to have civilisation as early as the East - the East had a 2000-year dark age! That's plenty of time for civilisation to have developed in the West. I think it's a bit weird having too similar a timeline on either side.
2. Evil Empire. HOWEVER - I've always thought of the West as closer to Europe... and a civilisation that was a cross between Europe and, say, the Aztecs might well be interesting. That is, one that develops fairly enlightened views but still has human sacrifice...
3. Let's start at the beginning and work forward.
The other plans:
1. My original plan was for the Steppe language to be non-Western (either a single family or from the north). It doesn't really matter, though - by the time of civilisation, a Steppe family would be fairly non-Western anyway, particular with substratal influence.
2. How I would break it the family down:
Phase One: the family settles around the whole of the eastern bay.
Phase Two: The western and southern edges slowly expand.
Phase Three: A central group explodes over the steppe
Phase Four: the Western sub-family covers the southern coast; civilisation develops
Phase Five: the steppe nomads come visiting and take over parts of the south coast.
This would give us four groups:
a) southern desert languages
b) the western coastal family - originally extending along the south coast
c) the steppe family - not only the steppe but also large parts of the south coast where they have conquered
d) the residual people on the eastern west coast (the homeland), who are more diverse in their languages.
This isn't far off Cedh's map. I would suggest not having the dark-blue family expand as far up the coast, and have the light-blue family expand further inland in their nations, but be broken up by some steppe nations (like our Hungarians, and historically our Avars and Scythians and Bulgarians).
I would also add the proviso that the area marked for the steppe family not be "the steppe family" but be a patchwork not only of subfamilies but also of other families. If we look at our own steppe, we see a series of multiethnic and probably multilingual confederations of tribes - one language might dominate, but the smaller groups may have their own language. Hence the Hungarians survive with their Ugric language despite millenia of subservience to Turkic, Tungusic, Iranic and maybe Mongolic tribes. Likewise there will probably be other people in the Western steppe.
----------------
On a mapping note: the climate map I did there doesn't mention that there's a north-south mountain chain and a west-east sea inlet in that steppe area, which will help to delimit Western expansion both across the steppe and along the coast, I think.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
I think that's what the Tjakori and Gezoro are. It seems plausible that they could have some other relatives hanging around somewhere, though.Salmoneus wrote:Re immediately-preceding post: but of course they could still have found some less-fertile corner of the plain to settle down themselves!
Radius: I don't think your proposed family tree is very different from mine, actually.
Cedh's maps look ok, though I agree that I'd have the steppe group explode faster and cover a bigger area. I think we shouldn't get hung up on the details (like how many subfamilies there are and exactly where they go) at this stage, though; it seems like it'd be best to leave things flexible for the relay if we're going to do one.
(I definitely think the whole north coast of the great bay should eventually be Western-speaking, though; that's where the "Western Civs" are on the original map, after all. The langs spoken there might be a mixture of coastal and steppe, or they could form their own branch like Sal suggests).
Legion, it sounds like your second kingdom is "inland", but not necessarily "steppe". If they're a settled agricultural state my objections obviously don't apply; but in that case I think I'd keep them separate from the "steppe" group proper.
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard
Akana Wiki | Akana Forum
I've uploaded new versions of the maps to reflect the discussion.
Blog: audmanh.wordpress.com
Conlangs: Ronc Tyu | Buruya Nzaysa | Doayâu | Tmaśareʔ
Conlangs: Ronc Tyu | Buruya Nzaysa | Doayâu | Tmaśareʔ
Well, if the early history of the coastal people as I envision it is that problematic, we can make it into mostly legendary, exagerated accounts of much lower scale real events (like, the so called "first period unity" would really corresponds only to an alliance between a few tribes).
For the steppe people, well. I had envision that even if they originally were nomad, they *could* settle down. Maybe we could reach a compromise in the was Corumayas suggested: the lower half of the steppe would become sedentary and form a civilisation, with wich the coast people would later ally to form the Holy Empire, while the upper half of the steppe would remain nomadic.
Thoughts?
For the steppe people, well. I had envision that even if they originally were nomad, they *could* settle down. Maybe we could reach a compromise in the was Corumayas suggested: the lower half of the steppe would become sedentary and form a civilisation, with wich the coast people would later ally to form the Holy Empire, while the upper half of the steppe would remain nomadic.
Thoughts?
(Wrote this before reading Legion's latest comment; still think it won't do any harm if I post this, as it seems to point to a somewhat different concern)
Sorry for intervening - I just thought if/how I could contribute to the proposed Western Relay (really a nice challenge, conlinguistically), and...
To me, what Dewrad called "comic-book nastiness" doesn't seem just an issue of aesthetics (human history needn't look all that aesthetic, I guess). Rather, I'm having problems trying to imagine a powerful state of that sort with some realistic feel to it.
The Terrestrian early states practicing regular human sacrifice that come to my mind (China's Yin Dynasty, Mesopotamia, some of the Meso-American civs), as it appears, kinda parasitized on the surrounding tribes and depended on human flesh supply from the latter. Accordingly, they were not and could not be really big. Besides, they seem to historically precede the more familiar slavery-based societies, and this seems quite logical.
In fact, it looks like earliest militaristic superpowers just haven't figured out yet what else they could do with the defeated; as progress (esp. military) makes the option of slavery available, a civilization of ritual murderers must transform or be destroyed (quite opposite to the proposed order of events). In fact, it has all chances to be ruined earlier: it teaches its military advances to its neighbors all the time; and imagine, at some later point, two comparable powers one of which is in no pressing internal need of *incessant* warfare - guess who has an advantage?
For sure, there are mechanisms whereby a homicide state can spread its influence and unite a few tribes, but its social machinery should not work on longer distances, since it will raise hostility moderated only by fear, and will lack a powerful centripetal motivation. Expansion will lead to crisis followed by either profound reforms or collapse.
Demographic disadvantages (as compared to neighbors) is another problem. While individual people directly affected by sacrifice etc. can be few, the perpetual warfare must undermine the demography on a large scale. I'd imagine the negative impact on population growth could be alleviated by widespread polygamy, but this means goodbye to "a better status for women" and changes the general picture a lot. Some initial advantage over the neighbors in terms of demographics could be provided by availability of e. g. an area particularly favorable for early agriculture and thus supporting a *much* higher population densities than its surroundings; but that must be a strictly local resource (e. g. a single river valley) for otherwise it would be available to some of the neighbors as well.
All the above seems to mean that the homicide civ must be narrowly local and cannot survive into an epoch when other models of centralized state become available.
OK, sorry for the pointillistic style - each point should properly have been explicated in a few paragraphs at least - but anyway.
In short: Legion, what do you think of restricting your original vision of "barbaric but not evil" civ to about your Proto Coastal Western culture, and re-dating a profound reform of the religion (in the first place) to some point near the beginning of your Golden Age? The culture might be still quite warlike but without those anachronistic excesses. For otherwise "barbaric" sounds (perhaps only to me, but anyway) more like not mature enough to spread its culture over the whole region.
(Perhaps your latest applies to this set of arguments as well, does it? Sorry for the lengthy near-offtopic message, too...)
Sorry for intervening - I just thought if/how I could contribute to the proposed Western Relay (really a nice challenge, conlinguistically), and...
To me, what Dewrad called "comic-book nastiness" doesn't seem just an issue of aesthetics (human history needn't look all that aesthetic, I guess). Rather, I'm having problems trying to imagine a powerful state of that sort with some realistic feel to it.
The Terrestrian early states practicing regular human sacrifice that come to my mind (China's Yin Dynasty, Mesopotamia, some of the Meso-American civs), as it appears, kinda parasitized on the surrounding tribes and depended on human flesh supply from the latter. Accordingly, they were not and could not be really big. Besides, they seem to historically precede the more familiar slavery-based societies, and this seems quite logical.
In fact, it looks like earliest militaristic superpowers just haven't figured out yet what else they could do with the defeated; as progress (esp. military) makes the option of slavery available, a civilization of ritual murderers must transform or be destroyed (quite opposite to the proposed order of events). In fact, it has all chances to be ruined earlier: it teaches its military advances to its neighbors all the time; and imagine, at some later point, two comparable powers one of which is in no pressing internal need of *incessant* warfare - guess who has an advantage?
For sure, there are mechanisms whereby a homicide state can spread its influence and unite a few tribes, but its social machinery should not work on longer distances, since it will raise hostility moderated only by fear, and will lack a powerful centripetal motivation. Expansion will lead to crisis followed by either profound reforms or collapse.
Demographic disadvantages (as compared to neighbors) is another problem. While individual people directly affected by sacrifice etc. can be few, the perpetual warfare must undermine the demography on a large scale. I'd imagine the negative impact on population growth could be alleviated by widespread polygamy, but this means goodbye to "a better status for women" and changes the general picture a lot. Some initial advantage over the neighbors in terms of demographics could be provided by availability of e. g. an area particularly favorable for early agriculture and thus supporting a *much* higher population densities than its surroundings; but that must be a strictly local resource (e. g. a single river valley) for otherwise it would be available to some of the neighbors as well.
All the above seems to mean that the homicide civ must be narrowly local and cannot survive into an epoch when other models of centralized state become available.
OK, sorry for the pointillistic style - each point should properly have been explicated in a few paragraphs at least - but anyway.
In short: Legion, what do you think of restricting your original vision of "barbaric but not evil" civ to about your Proto Coastal Western culture, and re-dating a profound reform of the religion (in the first place) to some point near the beginning of your Golden Age? The culture might be still quite warlike but without those anachronistic excesses. For otherwise "barbaric" sounds (perhaps only to me, but anyway) more like not mature enough to spread its culture over the whole region.
(Perhaps your latest applies to this set of arguments as well, does it? Sorry for the lengthy near-offtopic message, too...)
Basilius
Switching to a somewhat different topic once more: about Ppãrwak.
Have people already used it in their projects (e. g. as a source of lexical loans)?
Has there been anything published about it besides this sketch? I couldn't find anything on the web.
Since it is an important language spoken on Ttirukũ, I am trying to understand its history, and (surprise!) I am already thinking of updating it a bit. So I thought I'd better ask people first.
Have people already used it in their projects (e. g. as a source of lexical loans)?
Has there been anything published about it besides this sketch? I couldn't find anything on the web.
Since it is an important language spoken on Ttirukũ, I am trying to understand its history, and (surprise!) I am already thinking of updating it a bit. So I thought I'd better ask people first.
Basilius
Hm, you actually make a decent point.
On the other hand, in the case of mesoamerican-civs, human sacrifice doesn't seems to have seriously hindered the rise of great empires and civs, but there was a peculiar reason to this: everybody was doing it and it was considered a normal thing.
So, I am thinking, maybe we could make this particular developpement an areal culture point, shared with some of the steppe people. Though I wouldn't mind either to make the religious reform comes a bit earlier.
On the other hand, in the case of mesoamerican-civs, human sacrifice doesn't seems to have seriously hindered the rise of great empires and civs, but there was a peculiar reason to this: everybody was doing it and it was considered a normal thing.
So, I am thinking, maybe we could make this particular developpement an areal culture point, shared with some of the steppe people. Though I wouldn't mind either to make the religious reform comes a bit earlier.
I'm not sure Basilius's analysis is entirely correct. A clear ancient counter-example is Carthage, which had a very respectable empire, and where if anything human sacrifice expanded over time:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all
The war with Rome was pretty close; it's not hard to picture Carthage rather than Rome winning. And in any case the practice continued until just 2200 years ago. (For that matter, Rome wasn't entirely innocent itself.)
Also, warfare doesn't in itself greatly affect population— because war mostly kills off men, and it's women who bear children. (Demographic charts show barely a blip for WWII, with its tens of millions dead.) It can have an indirect effect, in that war puts a bonus on raising warlike men rather than women; thus fewer girls are raised. The above article also suggests that the Carthaginian nobility used child sacrifice as a way of concentrating wealth.
It's worth noting that Carthaginian sacrifices were on a far smaller scale than (say) the Aztecs.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all
The war with Rome was pretty close; it's not hard to picture Carthage rather than Rome winning. And in any case the practice continued until just 2200 years ago. (For that matter, Rome wasn't entirely innocent itself.)
Also, warfare doesn't in itself greatly affect population— because war mostly kills off men, and it's women who bear children. (Demographic charts show barely a blip for WWII, with its tens of millions dead.) It can have an indirect effect, in that war puts a bonus on raising warlike men rather than women; thus fewer girls are raised. The above article also suggests that the Carthaginian nobility used child sacrifice as a way of concentrating wealth.
It's worth noting that Carthaginian sacrifices were on a far smaller scale than (say) the Aztecs.
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Radius Solis
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Well. AFAIK it has not yet been used as a mother language or a major source of loanwords for anyone else, except possibly a few loans in Legion's Isles language, or in Zele. So if you want to update Ppãrwak grammar this isn't entirely out of the question... we've had to do this once before, with Ndok Aisô. But I would proceed with caution, because it's someone else's work. It might be best to keep us informed about what exactly you want to change.Basilius wrote:Switching to a somewhat different topic once more: about Ppãrwak.
Have people already used it in their projects (e. g. as a source of lexical loans)?
Has there been anything published about it besides this sketch? I couldn't find anything on the web.
Since it is an important language spoken on Ttirukũ, I am trying to understand its history, and (surprise!) I am already thinking of updating it a bit. So I thought I'd better ask people first.
For what it's worth, human sacrifice is part of the Aiwa region's culture too; the Ngauro and Ndak both practiced it, and the Ndok in Lasomo still did into early Classical times. On Earth it seems to have been pretty normal for early civilizations (Mesopotamia, China, all over the Americas)...
Looking at the map, I have to remind myself how small this continent is. I've been thinking of the steppe as roughly central Asia sized, but I guess it's actually much smaller.
Looking at the map, I have to remind myself how small this continent is. I've been thinking of the steppe as roughly central Asia sized, but I guess it's actually much smaller.
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard
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zompist > No, I don't think Carthage is a valid counter-example. Sure, sacrifice of children was a common phenomenon (the article mentions a couple other examples, and I can add Scandinavia and pre-Islamic Arabs right away). But I think we discussed a warlike civ and regular sacrifice of captives as a kind of religious practice. Sorry for potentially confusing wording that I used.
Also, I kinda recall being taught that there were two *primary* narrowings (as different from echo-effects) in the demographic profiles of most nations directly affected by WWII: one because of the killed people, and the other because of children who weren't born during the war. That is, wartime is not especially good for marrying and having babies, and this has a demographic effect comparable to immediate human losses.
(There is also a question of the validity of comparison between WWII and ancient civs: for example, during the former, massacring whole villages or towns was rather an exception - still too common, but anyway; things seem to have been different e. g. in European Antiquity.)
OK, as I said earlier, each point should properly be expanded to a few paragraphs...
Radius Solis > Before proposing any revisions, I am going to upload what I was able to understand about Ppãrwak (sound changes etc.) with remarks on what I perceive as potential problems, and to send the link to Avaja besides posting it to this thread.
Only if polygamy (or some other peculiar marital practice) is widespread.zompist wrote: [...] war mostly kills off men, and it's women who bear children.
Can you point to a specific source of such data? I wonder if it gives averaged numbers for whole of Europe or what... I have a totally different picture in my head for some reason.zompist wrote:Demographic charts show barely a blip for WWII.
Also, I kinda recall being taught that there were two *primary* narrowings (as different from echo-effects) in the demographic profiles of most nations directly affected by WWII: one because of the killed people, and the other because of children who weren't born during the war. That is, wartime is not especially good for marrying and having babies, and this has a demographic effect comparable to immediate human losses.
(There is also a question of the validity of comparison between WWII and ancient civs: for example, during the former, massacring whole villages or towns was rather an exception - still too common, but anyway; things seem to have been different e. g. in European Antiquity.)
OK, as I said earlier, each point should properly be expanded to a few paragraphs...
Radius Solis > Before proposing any revisions, I am going to upload what I was able to understand about Ppãrwak (sound changes etc.) with remarks on what I perceive as potential problems, and to send the link to Avaja besides posting it to this thread.
Basilius
Here's a basic source-- French demographics over the 19th and 20th centuries:Basilius wrote:Only if polygamy (or some other peculiar marital practice) is widespread.zompist wrote: [...] war mostly kills off men, and it's women who bear children.Can you point to a specific source of such data? I wonder if it gives averaged numbers for whole of Europe or what... I have a totally different picture in my head for some reason.zompist wrote:Demographic charts show barely a blip for WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Popul ... turies.jpg
Note that despite the dips for the world wars, French population not only recovered but exceeded the historical trendline after the war (and without polygamy).
(This is getting off topic, so further discussion should probably go in Ephemera.)
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Salmoneus
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WWII:Basilius wrote: (There is also a question of the validity of comparison between WWII and ancient civs: for example, during the former, massacring whole villages or towns was rather an exception - still too common, but anyway; things seem to have been different e. g. in European Antiquity.)
Germany: 3.5m military, 1.6m civilians
China: 2m military, 7.5m civilians
India: 0.04 military, 3m civilians
Japan: 1.5m military, 0.7m civilians
Poland: 0.15 military; 6m civilians
USSR: 10m military; 7m civilians
Yugoslavia: 0.2m military; 1.2m civilians
France: 0.2m military; 0.35m civilians
Hungary: 0.13m military; 0.5m civilians
etc
etc
etc
TOTAL FOR EUROPE ALONE: 14m military, 28m civilians
We should also point out that more than two MILLION Germans were massacred between 1945 and 1947 in the great expulsions - almost all either civilians or POWs.
---
By comparison, historical massacres were actually fairly rare. It simply didn't usually make sense to massacre the peasantry, as they were your foodsource both for your armies and for when you had won the war. There were, of course, exceptions - in particular the Jewish Wars, which were notoriously bloody on both sides.
----
If it's true that modern wars can't compete for demographic effects, it's true for economic/political reasons, not for reasons of massacre. The cataclysmic extinctions that accompanied the (handful of) great wars of the past was a result of disease and, mainly, famine, in a political and economic framework that is unable to move sufficient quantities of food to afflicted areas in time. This is of course still a problem (hence the high death toll for India above, thanks to the famine in Bengal), but to a far lesser degree.
The best examples of this are probably the Hundred Years Way (200k soldiers died, but maybe 3m french peasants), the Thirty Years War and the An Lushan Revolt. The 30 Years War killed 7.5 million, about a third of the population of Germany at the time.
The 36 million dead from An Lushan represented 2/3rds of the entire population dying in only ten years.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
zompist > I don't like it getting offtopic too, and I don't feel particularly interested in discussing WWII (here or elsewhere).
Salmoneus > I think your analysis is mostly correct, immediate killing was not the biggest damage to demography. Economics and probably epidemiology were more important, ultimately.
(Trying to drive it back to Akana affairs)
Actually, WWII with all its horrors was just a six-year episode, and we were discussing a civ whose religion favors or demands more-less permanent warfare. It seems to me that most people, and Legion in the first place, agreed that that was a period of limited duration (like, a couple centuries), perhaps conditioned by some initial local increase in population densities (my idea). Considering the ways such a society could transform looks like an interesting challenge, BTW.
Salmoneus > I think your analysis is mostly correct, immediate killing was not the biggest damage to demography. Economics and probably epidemiology were more important, ultimately.
(Trying to drive it back to Akana affairs)
Actually, WWII with all its horrors was just a six-year episode, and we were discussing a civ whose religion favors or demands more-less permanent warfare. It seems to me that most people, and Legion in the first place, agreed that that was a period of limited duration (like, a couple centuries), perhaps conditioned by some initial local increase in population densities (my idea). Considering the ways such a society could transform looks like an interesting challenge, BTW.
Basilius
Hi people. Is it something cached that I see or has it been really so quiet here?
Just uploaded a complete list of known Ppãrwak stuff with provisional etyma.
Can be of interest to people who work on other languages of the Isles stock.
(BTW, is it OK to upload provisional stuff to the root like I did?)
I'll upload some analysis a bit later (perhaps not today).
Just uploaded a complete list of known Ppãrwak stuff with provisional etyma.
Can be of interest to people who work on other languages of the Isles stock.
(BTW, is it OK to upload provisional stuff to the root like I did?)
I'll upload some analysis a bit later (perhaps not today).
Basilius
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Salmoneus
- Sanno
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Yeah, that's what you'll have to expect. This project can go months without anything happening. Then there's an explosion when several people get interested all at once.
Early on it was worrying, but it actually seems to work - we've outlasted several more energetic projects.
Early on it was worrying, but it actually seems to work - we've outlasted several more energetic projects.
Blog: [url]http://vacuouswastrel.wordpress.com/[/url]
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!
This world has been around for several years now, so I think we've developed a kind of laid-back, work on it when you can/want to kind of approach. Which I like, but I still feel kind of bad that I haven't done anything with Proto-Eige-Isthmus in a while. I need to find a new source of inspiration, I think.
Basilius, did you notice the Proto-Isles lexicon? Your "provisional etyma" made me wonder.
Basilius, did you notice the Proto-Isles lexicon? Your "provisional etyma" made me wonder.
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard
Akana Wiki | Akana Forum
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Radius Solis
- Smeric
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Yes, I did. The lexicon, and the grammar, too.Corumayas wrote:Basilius, did you notice the Proto-Isles lexicon? Your "provisional etyma" made me wonder.
Anything wrong with my "etyma"? Most of them are from the Sun&Wind text: its Ppãrwak version seems to follow the Proto-Isles translation near-literally.
Basilius
Zhen Lin: for what it's worth, one of those already exists; I used to have it on my mac (the one the relay killed two-plus years ago). I don't remember where I got it, probably someone linked to it on the zbb.
Basilius: oh I see, it's Ppãrwak that doesn't have a lexicon. Just glancing over your list it seems fine to me, though it has some unnecessary repeated entries and some question marks. Maybe you can start a list of sound correspondences.
Basilius: oh I see, it's Ppãrwak that doesn't have a lexicon. Just glancing over your list it seems fine to me, though it has some unnecessary repeated entries and some question marks. Maybe you can start a list of sound correspondences.
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard
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