Conlang relay [relocated] (aka "The Cursed Relay")

Cedh · Post by **Cedh** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:21 pm

Yeah, PCW definitely looks cool. (It would look even better with <ʔ> instead of <7>.) I wonder how those people manage to correctly pronounce words like zedzezedzotsudzita though...

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Also, there's been some interest in a new conlang relay, which we had the intention of starting sometime anyway. Radius and I have discussed it on IRC already, and we're willing to take charge in organizing a new relay game. We should probably all try to meet up on [url=irc://irc.sorcery.net/akana]#akana[/url] as much as possible in the next days and weeks in order to discuss all the necessary stuff.

Corumayas · Post by **Corumayas** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:02 pm

Awesome!

I'll be away from computers for most of the next couple of days, but I'd be up for some IRC-ing on Wednesday or Thursday. I do have some opinions about what might be cool to do for the relay...

TzirTzi · Post by **TzirTzi** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:10 pm

Thanks

cedh audmanh wrote:Yeah, PCW definitely looks cool. (It would look even better with <660> instead of <7>.) I wonder how those people manage to correctly pronounce words like zedzezedzotsudzita though...

Yeah, I liked <7> when I started off but actually, given how frequent a phoneme /?/ is, something a bit less striking would be better.

Another relay still sounds like a great plan

Maybe I'll try to get on IRC to be involved in this discussion (though I've never managed to work out how it works before, so I'm not too optimistic...

).

Is the thought still to set up a structure to have some influence over the daughterlangs - a set of shared innovations to pick from or somesuch?

Cedh · Post by **Cedh** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:48 am

TzirTzi wrote:Maybe I'll try to get on IRC to be involved in this discussion (though I've never managed to work out how it works before, so I'm not too optimistic... ).

If you don't have it already, install the Chatzilla addon for Firefox, and tell it to go to irc://irc.sorcery.net/akana . Clicking the link should automatically start the plugin. Alternatively, you could use a web-based client such as Mibbit - select "Sorcery (webirc)" from the dropdown list, type in a nick and the channel name "#akana", and hit "Go".

Is the thought still to set up a structure to have some influence over the daughterlangs - a set of shared innovations to pick from or somesuch?

We should definitely try to have something like that for each generation of languages. But at the same time we'll have to be careful not to crush creativity, so most such constraints should probably worked out in discussion together with the participants.

Nortaneous · Post by **Nortaneous** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:37 am

here

^ mibbit link straight to the channel

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:15 am

By the way Tzirtzi, I noticed two small errors in the pdf:

The phoneme inventory doesn't mention /x/, and the i-affection and u-affection outcomes of /i/ and /o/ are inverted with each other in the table.

TzirTzi · Post by **TzirTzi** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:24 am

Ah yes, thanks

I've noticed a few others as well, so consider the current version no longer up-to-date...

TzirTzi · Post by **TzirTzi** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:12 am

Okay, that's those errors corrected and uploaded. Plus incidentally I uploaded a new version of the lexicon earlier with derivational morphology added.

the duke of nuke · Post by **the duke of nuke** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:15 am

Nice.
Is it PCW or its descendants (or neither) that's supposed to borrow from Lukpanic?

Neon Fox · Post by **Neon Fox** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:32 am

My apologies if this is answered somewhere else--I did do some looking around, but there's a lot to go through. :)

On this map, it looks as if the main area of interest is the central, mostly northern continent; there's another continent just to its east, connected by an Aleutian-Islands-like chain.

Is there contact with that other continent and, if so, has there been work done on those languages yet? Because if not, I have some ideas. :)

Cedh · Post by **Cedh** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:20 pm

thedukeofnuke wrote:Nice.
Is it PCW or its descendants (or neither) that's supposed to borrow from Lukpanic?

I'd say PCW as described in the grammar might be the form of the language spoken immediately before the PCW peoples move into Lukpanic territory, but let's see what TzirTzi and boy#12 think about it.

Neon Fox wrote:On this map, it looks as if the main area of interest is the central, mostly northern continent

Correct. This central continent goes by the name of Peilaš /"pelaS/.

Neon Fox wrote:there's another continent just to its east, connected by an Aleutian-Islands-like chain. Is there contact with that other continent and, if so, has there been work done on those languages yet? Because if not, I have some ideas.

The Isles family, which figured in the 2005 reconstruction game, originates on that continent (Tuysáfa), but is largely spoken on the islands. Not much more is known about the linguistic situation there, except that there were probably three different waves of human migration from Peilaš to Tuysáfa (and on to the southern continent Zeluzhia), corresponding to three linguistic stocks. The first of these waves reached Tuysáfa about -15.000 YP, and the last one, to which Proto-Isles belongs, around -4000 YP.

Regular contact between the continents will probably be established at some point between 1000 and 2000 YP; we haven't quite decided on this yet. Our resident expert for Isles languages is Basilius btw.

Neon Fox · Post by **Neon Fox** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:48 pm

cedh audmanh wrote: The Isles family, which figured in the 2005 reconstruction game, originates on that continent (Tuysáfa), but is largely spoken on the islands. Not much more is known about the linguistic situation there, except that there were probably three different waves of human migration from Peilaš to Tuysáfa (and on to the southern continent Zeluzhia), corresponding to three linguistic stocks. The first of these waves reached Tuysáfa about -15.000 YP, and the last one, to which Proto-Isles belongs, around -4000 YP.

So the Isles family is what's spoken in the Isles and presumedly the western part of Tuysáfa; is anything known of the other two groups? I confess I'm having a bit of a tough time wrapping my head around most of the extant families--maybe some nice triconsonontals...? :)

Radius Solis · Post by **Radius Solis** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:42 pm

Neon Fox wrote: So the Isles family is what's spoken in the Isles and presumedly the western part of Tuysáfa; is anything known of the other two groups? I confess I'm having a bit of a tough time wrapping my head around most of the extant families--maybe some nice triconsonontals...?

We don't know anything about the other two groups with the exception that they should have diverged too much to reconstruct their ancestors. By a large margin. Especially the first wave; 15000 years is more than twice the time depth that has ever been substantially pierced by the comparative method. The diversity among languages spawned by the first wave could be as great as from Celtic to Mandarin, by now.

An X-consonantal root family in there somewhere could be a nice addition, provided it doesn't too closely resemble the Semitic system.

thedukeofnuke wrote:Nice.
Is it PCW or its descendants (or neither) that's supposed to borrow from Lukpanic?

That was the idea, but none of this is carved in stone yet.

Neon Fox · Post by **Neon Fox** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:57 pm

Radius Solis wrote: We don't know anything about the other two groups with the exception that they should have diverged too much to reconstruct their ancestors. By a large margin. Especially the first wave; 15000 years is more than twice the time depth that has ever been substantially pierced by the comparative method. The diversity among languages spawned by the first wave could be as great as from Celtic to Mandarin, by now.

An X-consonantal root family in there somewhere could be a nice addition, provided it doesn't too closely resemble the Semitic system. :)

Hmmm. Something in the far east of Tuysáfa, then, maybe, or even out on those volcanic islands? A small family. Maybe the southern part of Zeluzhia, if the far islands aren't quite far enough.

the duke of nuke · Post by **the duke of nuke** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:47 pm

I think Akana needs more monosyllabic, isolating languages

although X-consonantal roots would also be good to see.

Basilius · Post by **Basilius** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:47 pm

cedh audmanh wrote:Our resident expert for Isles languages is Basilius btw.

Oh, no. Most of my proposals ended in little but conflicts, so I'd better waive them :)

I can help only with Affanonic, but even this lang was planned to get the status of an Open Project as soon as I'd finish with documenting it (I still have to wikify the sound changes, in the first place).

As for the other langs in the family, comments from some of the original contributors, Avaja and brandrinn in particular, would be much more helpful (in fact, indispensable, I'm inclined to think).

roninbodhisattva · Post by **roninbodhisattva** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:07 pm

So, I know I've dropped in before and said I would like to be part of this somehow, and then never gotten arund to doing something, but the talk of a second relay popping up and me joining in on it have really got me interested in doing an independent project as well. I've got a couple ideas, but I'd like to drop them into an area that hasn't really been explored yet. I've got my eyes on a couple of locations, those being...

- North coast Peilaš, in the area near where Qedik would have been spoken, or maybe a bit farther to the East, maybe somewhere in the vicinity of the river furthest East on this map, above Boesin and in the vicinity of Ka'alikora.

- Somewhere on Tuysáfa, one of those unexplored language stocks. Are there any ideas surrounding those, or are they basically completely up for grabs?

- On the same map as the above, perhaps to the south of Tjakori and to the South-west of the Hitatic languages. Between that group of mountains and the lake.

Neon Fox · Post by **Neon Fox** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:42 pm

roninbodhisattva wrote:Somewhere on Tuysáfa, one of those unexplored language stocks. Are there any ideas surrounding those, or are they basically completely up for grabs?

I was thinking of doing something with those volcanic islands to the east of Tuysáfa; we could collaborate on that end of the world, maybe from the very first wave of colonization so we could have our own language families; the time depth would make it plausible.

If no one who started on the world objects, of course. :)

roninbodhisattva · Post by **roninbodhisattva** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:15 am

Neon Fox wrote:I was thinking of doing something with those volcanic islands to the east of Tuysáfa; we could collaborate on that end of the world, maybe from the very first wave of colonization so we could have our own language families; the time depth would make it plausible.

I might be down for such a thing. Are you talking about a single collaborative family here, or just a collab effort, sharing notes on the history and what not?

Also, as a question all you already Akana-knowing people out there: Is there any information on the climate zones/climates of the various regions? Has this ever been discussed? What does the north Peilaš look like, up there past the mountains.

the duke of nuke · Post by **the duke of nuke** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:27 am

If you guys wouldn't mind, I'd love to get involved in work on Tuysáfa. Either of the collaboration methods you suggest sound like fun.

Neon Fox · Post by **Neon Fox** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:39 am

roninbodhisattva wrote: I might be down for such a thing. Are you talking about a single collaborative family here, or just a collab effort, sharing notes on the history and what not?

Either way works for me. We're working with enough time depth that we can easily have protolangs with no apparent genetic relationship, but close enough to each other physically that a sprachbund would be reasonable too. History and stuff benefits from collaboration, in my experience. (Which means, duke, I'm down with more help.)

As for climate stuff, from glancing over the wiki it seems to me that detailed climatology has only been done for the areas of Peilaš and western Tuysáfa that there's already stuff for.

TzirTzi · Post by **TzirTzi** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:37 am

There's also some discussion of climate here

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roninbodhisattva · Post by **roninbodhisattva** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:49 am

Ah yes, I totally forgot that there was a separate forum now...

@ Neon Fox: Do you want to start a thread over there for work on Tuysáfa?

Neon Fox · Post by **Neon Fox** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:52 am

roninbodhisattva wrote:Ah yes, I totally forgot that there was a separate forum now...

@ Neon Fox: Do you want to start a thread over there for work on Tuysáfa?

On it!

EDIT: I started with climate, on the theory we can go from there. That work for you?

roninbodhisattva · Post by **roninbodhisattva** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:09 am

Neon Fox wrote: I started with climate, on the theory we can go from there. That work for you?

Yeah, that works for me, I don't know anything about climatology, really, so I'm going to be pretty silent on that issue for a while.