Music- the biggest challenge in Verdurian translations?

[Raphael]

I had a wrong idea on a similar topic before, but could it be that the thing that is most difficult to translate into Verdurian are songs? I think that because most songs are written in poetry and therefore should be written in poetry in the Verdurian translation too- but Verdurian poetry strongly depends on having the right number of stressed syllables per line, and what can one do if in the lines of a song the melody itself demands the wrong number of stressed syllables?

[Jaaaaaa]

Why not write in Verdurian but using a different meter?

[Nuntar]

Because if you're translating a song you have to keep the metre of the song, otherwise the words won't match the melody.

[zompist]

Poetry and music are certainly special challenges in translation, since they involve sound as well as meaning; the translation generally can't capture both.

I've seen translators of the Divine Comedy complain that English is poor in rhymes compared to Italian, making it almost impossible to produce a good version in Dante's terza rima (ABA BCB CDC...).

Then you get into the cultural context. Translating Shakespeare into French, for instance, you should arguably change the iambic pentameter into alexandrines, which is the verse form used for comparable works.

Similarly in Verdurian, the most culturally sensitive translation would be into alliterative verse, which is the preferred native form of poetry.

As for meter... generally translators will modify the meaning pretty freely in order to fit. (On the old board there's an example of the Marseillaise translated into Verdurian, preserving the meter; I think Philip also provided a number of anthem translations, though I forget if he kept the meter.)

[Raphael]

As for meter... generally translators will modify the meaning pretty freely in order to fit. (On the old board there's an example of the Marseillaise translated into Verdurian, preserving the meter; I think Philip also provided a number of anthem translations, though I forget if he kept the meter.)

Sorry, but I still don't understand. What meter do you mean? That of the original text, that of eyurcriv?t, or that of the melody? The last of these should be kept, after all, and what if it clashes with the second?

Your translation of the Marseillaise is actually an example for this; the text seems to have no fixed number of accented syllables per line, and the accented syllables don't match the natural stress of the melody, either. For instance, in the first line the melody would put the stress on ues, pi, and n?, but only the last of these actually is accented in the text. Also, the first syllable has a long vowel, but the first sound of the melody is short.

(Please don't take this as an insult; I just wonder if there's any way to work around those problems. Minor changes in the melody perhaps? Or a tolerance for alien meter by the Verdurians?)

[zompist]

But it does fit, though (as I said) with some stretching to fit. Here's a comparison, with the vowels of the French and Verdurian lined up:

<tt><pro>Al.lons.en.fants.de.la.pa.tri.e,.
L?.da..nam,ues...t?.pi.ro..n?.ei,.
Le.jour.de.gloire.est.a.rri.v?.
So.ho...ra.bra...ce...adzhe.nun!.
Contre.nous.de.la.ty.ranni.e.
.Ak.tan.is...so.?n.altu..at?n.
L'?...ten.dard.sanglant.est.lev?.
.Soa.krof.s?..znu..ra...zet.seve.
.Entendez.vous.dans.les..cam.pagnes,.
Forte.ce..ya....im..soem.me.stem.
Mu.gir.ces.f?roces.soldats?.
Muzhou.ci-.voyak?...o.g?..
..Ils.viennent.jusque.dans.nos.bras.
Zhan...u...u..bra..ki.zhen..i....?.
Egorger.nos.fils,.nos.com..pa.gnes!.
Igozhen.ta...?....ci..rem,dru..ki..

.Aux.armes,.ci.toy..ens!.
Gu..ne.no,..p?zhio.m?!.
Formez.vos.ba.tai.llons!.
Conco..lo..takno..shi!.
Marchons!.Marchons!.
Fa..sa....di..rum!.
Qu'un..sang.impur.
.Krof.rho..se..or
.Abreuve..nos.sillons
me.ya.ne.meom.ta..?! </pro></tt>

Now, all I was trying to do here was fit the melody-- the Verdurian neither rhymes nor alliterates.

Verdurian song is of course optimized for Verdurian poetry; since the poetry isn't based on a fixed number of syllables, the melodies don't have a fixed number of notes. (European song has some freedom of accommodation here-- e.g. Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht was rendered into English stretching out 'holy' over three notes-- but Verdurian song has more.)