ConlangDictionary 0.3 - now phonology parsing is faster

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 1:47 pm

If there's no phonotactics, the program doesn't know which phonemes are allowed to be be peaks (or onsets, or codas).

Or maybe I could let you specify something like, "this set of phonemes are likely to appear in peaks" (without defining specific legal peaks), which would probably help it do a better job even without the .s, but syllable-level supra markings might fuck with that (or help it, or make it spend ridiculously long times figuring stuff out...). Probably better to just use that with the .s, though I can experiment some next time I get a chance. Peak-doubling will still probably not work right.

But basically, something that it took me making this program for me to realize: humans have intuitions about syllabification that computers ain't never gonna match.

Shinali Sishi · Post by **Shinali Sishi** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:11 am

I read through the thread, but I am still wondering if file import from lexique pro has been implemented yet.I finally got all my conlang dictionaries imported into it, but I want to do more than I can with LP. If it hasn't yet, I'll just check the thread every so often to see if that changed.

I also have another question, what Windows versions will this work on? Since my computer is down, I am using ME and XP, but my computer has Vista.

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:19 am

Lexique pro files haven't been implemented, I think.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:24 pm

Yeah, what Torco said. I'll try and squeeze it in after I get the current interface stuff worked out.

As far as versions of Windows go, in was compiled in XP, and it'll probably work on other versions too, but let me know if it doesn't.

Alfar · Post by **Alfar** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:24 pm

I can attest that it worked for me under vista 32 bit, at least.

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:04 pm

faiuwle wrote:Yeah, what Torco said. I'll try and squeeze it in after I get the current interface stuff worked out.

As far as versions of Windows go, in was compiled in XP, and it'll probably work on other versions too, but let me know if it doesn't.

It runs on XP, I bear witness to it. /me is running CD on it. Vista as well.

Shinali Sishi · Post by **Shinali Sishi** » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:22 pm

Thanks! I'll download it once that's implemented (and don't rush on my account, ideally I'll fix my computer before then so it is on there).

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:35 am

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!

the export thing doesn't let me export a text file with only the phonologies of the word: sure, it's easy to get around it, just make a csv, upload it to spreadsheet software, kill the word field, and export as a .txt again...

but drag! why can't the user export what fields he wants?

[FTR I want the phonologies to input them into ipa-zounds.py, which chews up IPA nicely]

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:28 am

The thing about having to have a /w in the formula was an assumption that I made at the start of writing that feature, so I never thought twice about that restriction. Yeah, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't be able to just export phonologies - I'll change it when I upload next, but I've been having problems with the last bit of UI stuff.

Maybe I'll just take the easy way out for now, and just disable the broken buttons until I have the energy to deal with them properly.

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:39 am

Damnit, now I can't re-import my modified wordlist into CD because my definitions have spaces, and therefore CD doesn't read them all that well. While it can export text with enters using the <"> character or something else, it cannot take a definition which has more than one line in the text file.

I'm just gonna keep them in the spreadsheet file until I figure it out

[ Note; it's not easy to get CD to work with VSCA or stuff like that; lots of things must be done by hand... perhaps I should write a tutorial ? xD ]

Feature for the future, if you're ever in doubt as to what to add to CD? a built-in SCA [/greedy leecher]

CaesarVincens · Post by **CaesarVincens** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:44 pm

Torco wrote:Feature for the future, if you're ever in doubt as to what to add to CD? a built-in SCA [/greedy leecher]

Hear, hear!

If you do decide to include something like that, I have some suggestions.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:54 pm

Torco wrote:Damnit, now I can't re-import my modified wordlist into CD because my definitions have spaces, and therefore CD doesn't read them all that well. While it can export text with enters using the <"> character or something else, it cannot take a definition which has more than one line in the text file.

Yeah, it just reads it in line by line. I've had ridiculous amounts of trouble trying to get Windows to read newlines (getline seems to be broken, arrgh) and I didn't want to deal with that - that's why I moved the savefile to XML and not CSV. If people want to major stuff with CSV specifically, I can use an actual CSV library, which I've done for projects in the past.

[ Note; it's not easy to get CD to work with VSCA or stuff like that; lots of things must be done by hand... perhaps I should write a tutorial ? xD ]

VSCA?

Feature for the future, if you're ever in doubt as to what to add to CD? a built-in SCA [/greedy leecher]

That's so far in the future that I really have no idea. There's definitely going to be diachronics-related stuff, but, again, way far in the future.

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:16 am

faiuwle wrote:I've had ridiculous amounts of trouble trying to get Windows to read newlines (getline seems to be broken, arrgh)

In general, library functions are seldomly broken, and if they are, there's plenty of information online to be found (either a gazillion people complaining, or lots of tutorials how to circumvent).

JAL

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:22 am

I suspect it's probably not the function itself so much as it is Windows newline, but it's been a long time since I've actually tried it.

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:38 pm

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:48 pm

Ahh - so you are exporting your wordlist into a text file for the VSCA, running the changes, and trying to import that file back? It'd probably actually be pretty easy to do something like say, I'm going to import this list of words, which correspond exactly to the words already in this dictionary, and the fields that are specified should update over the originals. But then, you would be using phonemes, and CD would want to input spellings.

Actually, after I get phonological features, an in-house SCA might not be that hard anyway, but you'd have to save the dictionary as a different file, etc., to preserve your protolang information. I have lots of (school) projects to work on this weekend, though, unfortunately.

Torco · Post by **Torco** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:05 am

It actually wouldn't be at all hard, and CD would do it without any problem, save for the fact that I had the great idea to use line breaks [is that the proper name for enters?] in my word definitions, so CD can't re-import it. No matter, it's gonna be a fun instance for semantic drift.

#script/phonology... well, since CD works with -hopefully- phonemic scripts, and considering that it doesn't support either allophony nor too many script oddities [I don't know how CD would do if one were to try to get it to support english spelling xD], it's just a matter of doing the old IPA-for-romanization switcharoo.

And on-board sound change applier would be awesome

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Tue May 11, 2010 5:29 pm

So, I've got the UI stuff in the phonology-editor done, finally, complete with both the phoneme-picker (when phonotactics is turned off) and buttons to throw phonemes across inter- and intra-syllable lines. I'll probably package it up and upload it either later today or tomorrow.

The next thing I want to do is get the Lexique Pro import done, as people have expressed interest and it's about damn time already. I don't actually have a saved Lexique Pro dictionary, though, so I need people who use it to send me their savefiles (I believe I downloaded the actual program at some point, so I should be able to view them the traditional way as well). You can either send it to me in an email (dragonflykes at gmail dot com) or host it somewhere temporary and give me a link.

After that, I'll wait at least a week in case anyone discovers any horrifying bugs that somehow got past me, and then I'll start working on 0.3, the major new feature of which will be Distinctive Features applying to everything, which should make declaring phonotactics easier and everything else a lot more intuitive. People with phonotactics turned off should be able to lump along with the tools I've added to the upcoming update until then, though.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Tue May 11, 2010 8:12 pm

Ok, new version is uploaded.

changelog wrote:5/11/10
- Words input from text files will now accept punctuation and spaces in the word field.
- You can now export to text file without necessarily exporting the word field. (durr, sorry about that)
- Multiple phonemes and words can be selected (with shift) and manipulated simultaneously.
- Edit phonology dialog will allow you to edit phonology when phonotactics are turned off.

And the changelog on the wiki is up-to-date too, now.

God, but I hate pbworks' WYSIWYG.

Anyway, for the selection on the phonemes and words tabs, you can select contiguous entries with shift + arrow keys and shift + click, or select multiple non-contiguous entries with ctrl + click. You can then delete them en masse, or, with the phonemes, move them up or down en masse.

If you go to edit the individual syllables when you have phonotactics turned off, clicking editing the onset/peak/coda will pop up a phoneme-picker rather than the standard interface, and with or without phonotactics on you can switch phonemes around with the arrow buttons in both the whole-word-editing dialog and the syllable-editing dialog.

Shinali Sishi · Post by **Shinali Sishi** » Sat May 15, 2010 12:21 am

do you still need lexique pro files?

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Sat May 15, 2010 11:08 am

Yes. I actually haven't gotten any yet, unless there are some in my inbox recently that I haven't seen yet.

Qwynegold · Post by **Qwynegold** » Sun May 16, 2010 5:53 am

faiuwle wrote:Yes. I actually haven't gotten any yet, unless there are some in my inbox recently that I haven't seen yet.

I sent you some long ago.

faiuwle · Post by **faiuwle** » Sun May 16, 2010 12:01 pm

You mean what you posted in this thread? I'd need the whole file to really test things, though I have been slacking for a bit lately, so I don't need it right now. I do have a sample db file that came with LP, but I'd rather look at what actual conlangers are doing with it.

Shinali Sishi · Post by **Shinali Sishi** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:28 am

faiuwle wrote:You mean what you posted in this thread? I'd need the whole file to really test things, though I have been slacking for a bit lately, so I don't need it right now. I do have a sample db file that came with LP, but I'd rather look at what actual conlangers are doing with it.

I sent you mine and I hope they help, though only one has all sorts of oddities in it (Classical Yawurenyi).

tezcatlip0ca · Post by **tezcatlip0ca** » Mon May 17, 2010 1:25 am

Is it possible to make even slightly nonphonemic romanizations (for example Italian-style /k/ and /tS/) compatible?