zompist bboard

vec · Post by **vec** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:35 am

I've been looking over maps of Arc?l and it has an x and of course there are the Axuanashin and Xurnese and so on. What do these mean?

vec · Post by **vec** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:36 am

Oh, and also, why are there so few countries in Arc?l?

Post by **zompist** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:41 am

Don't take the country boundaries on the Arc?l map too seriously; I haven't worked out its history at all.

I like <x>, I guess. Its phonetic value is a bit complicated... I'll have to look them up at home.

Soap · Post by **Soap** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:08 pm

<x> is one of my favorite letters. It rox.

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:59 pm

Mine too. I have a collection of all the different sounds I've seen it used for:

Phonemes (50 total):
/k/ /k_h/ /ks/ /gz/ /kS/ /k_x/ /g/ /x/ /x_-/ /x_j/ /x_w/ /xs/ /G/ /n`/ /J/ /N/ /X/ /R/ /X\/ /G\/ /G\_</ /?/ /h/ /h\/ /h_t\/
/?\/ /T/ /D/ /4/ /t_s/ /t_s_>/ /d_z/ /t_s`/ /t_S/ /d_Z/ /s/ /z/ /Z/ /S/ /s`/ /s\/ /C/ /j\/ /c/ /K\/ /t_!/ /t_7/ /t`_!/ /@/ /i/ /0/

Diacritics (i.e. x after another letter modifies the phoneme represented by that letter):
/_?\/ /_t/ /_k/ /:/ for vowels
/_?\/ /_j/ /`/ for consonants

Soap · Post by **Soap** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:51 pm

Ahribar wrote:Mine too. I have a collection of all the different sounds I've seen it used for:
/ks/ /kS/ /x/ /G/ /X/ /X\/ /?\/ /?/ /ts/ /tS/ /z/ /S/ /s\/ /C/ /c/ and even /_?\/ when following a vowel....

Are the /?\/ and /_?\/ both from me, or have you seen someone else using <x> for those two things too? I also used <x> for /Z/ early on with Moonshine. Also, someone in the world is probably using it for a click, since Zulu does that.

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:55 pm

To be honest, I can't remember where all of those come from, but the /_?\/ certainly is yours.... I'll add /Z/ to the list. And do you know which click it's used for in Zulu?

EDIT: a quick search reveals that Grey used x for /?\/ and that the Zulu x is a lateral click. What's that in x-sampa?

EDIT 2: pharazon already answered that, bother

pharazon · Post by **pharazon** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:59 pm

Ahribar wrote:To be honest, I can't remember where all of those come from, but the /_?\/ certainly is yours.... I'll add /Z/ to the list. And do you know which click it's used for in Zulu?

Alveolar lateral, aka /|\|\/

Radius Solis · Post by **Radius Solis** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:58 am

Add a nineteenth to the list: I'm using x to represent [4].

pharazon · Post by **pharazon** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:37 am

And you've forgotten our illustrious host's use of <x> for /G\/ in Elkar?l.

Also, <exit> = /EgzIt/

One last edit: Vietnamese and Hmong use <x> for /s/.

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:05 am

I think the English /gz/ is best regarded as a kind of allophone of /ks/; I know it's not really an allophone, because /g/ and /z/ are separate phonemes, but it isn't really true that x is ever "meant" to be /gz/, it's just pronounced that way between two short vowels. Thanks for the others, though.

vec · Post by **vec** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:14 am

Does this qualify as hijacking? Not that I don't mind, just wonderin...

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:32 am

Sorry, veg. Although Zomp had already answered your questions....

zmeiat_joro · Post by **zmeiat_joro** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:08 am

Also, <x> = /d_z/; <xh> = /d_Z/, in Albanian.

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:22 am

Thanks.

Pharazon, your Faroese page says that n is [N] before x, but doesn't say what the value of x itself is.

vec · Post by **vec** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:25 am

X is ks in Faraoese.

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:28 am

Thanks, vf.

vec · Post by **vec** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:57 am

I have two more. In Icelandic they were always [xs] or [Gs] but have mostly hardened to [ks].

Echobeats · Post by **Echobeats** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:58 pm

25+ is rather impressive. We could have a whole alphabet made of just <x> (vowels to be marked with diacritics).

Xx'xxx`x~x.x;xx-xxx+x=xx!

[ksSaG4\|\|\edZis\oDuC?Ahts`cE?\Isz]

(This means "My ex expects excessive sex" in my new polysynthetic conlang, "X").

Tim.

Ngo · Post by **Ngo** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:05 am

Ahribar wrote:Mine too. I have a collection of all the different sounds I've seen it used for:
/ks/ /kS/ /x/ /G/ /X/ /X\/ /G\/ /?\/ /?/ /h/ /D/ /4/ /ts/ /dz/ /ts`/ /tS/ /s/ /z/ /Z/ /S/ /s\/ /C/ /c/ /|\|\/ and even /_?\/ when following a vowel...

Twenty-five....

X looks a lot like the Bopomofo for /u/ so I suppose that you could add that to your count.

Nuntar · Post by **Nuntar** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:42 pm

No, it has to be the actual Roman letter X.

And I think that, strictly, Icelandic shouldn't be allowed either, as it has used its current alphabet as far back as its recorded history goes; there wasn't ever a decision made to use the letter X for a particular sound.

Soap · Post by **Soap** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:03 pm

In science fiction, you can often find sketchy conlangs spoken by aliens that use the letter X for sounds humans can't reproduce. "Broxholm Gnarx Erxxen Scradzz", etc. (Miraculously these aliens can usually speak all the sounds of human languages perfectly well.) These aren't serious conlangs, though, so I wouldn't count them.

vec · Post by **vec** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:52 pm

Ahribar wrote:No, it has to be the actual Roman letter X. And I think that, strictly, Icelandic shouldn't be allowed either, as it has used its current alphabet as far back as its recorded history goes; there wasn't ever a decision made to use the letter X for a particular sound.

It originally was the combination [xs]/[Gs].

zmeiat_joro · Post by **zmeiat_joro** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:16 pm

Echobeats wrote: Xx'xxx`x~x.x;xx-xxx+x=xx!

[ksSaG4\|\|\edZis\oDuC?Ahts`cE?\Isz]

(This means "My ex expects excessive sex" in my new polysynthetic conlang, "X").

I like that phrase so much I'll use it as a sig.

Echobeats · Post by **Echobeats** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:08 pm

zmeiat_joro wrote:
Echobeats wrote: Xx'xxx`x~x.x;xx-xxx+x=xx!

[ksSaG4\|\|\edZis\oDuC?Ahts`cE?\Isz]

(This means "My ex expects excessive sex" in my new polysynthetic conlang, "X").
I like that phrase so much I'll use it as a sig.

Hee hee hee!

Thanks.

Are there many other people who've released material in a jokelang before releasing a conlang? Of course, that was completely ad hoc, but still...

Tim.