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 Post subject: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:09 pm 
Avisaru
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As you may or may not know, (also known as "The Sheep and the Horses") has become a common text to translate into various reconstructions of Proto-Indo-European ever since Scheicher published it and no one else wanted to be one-upped in their PIE authoring skills.

However, it also serves as a very nice way of demonstrating the development of various Indo-European languages over time. So here's what I propose: whoever has knowledge of some Indo-European language (living or dead, though getting as many protolangs here as possible should be a major goal), translate the fable and post it here.

Here's the English version (from the Wikipedia article above):

-----
The Sheep and the Horses
A sheep that had no wool saw horses, one of them pulling a heavy wagon, one carrying a big load, and one carrying a man quickly. The sheep said to the horses: "My heart pains me, seeing a man driving horses". The horses said: "Listen, sheep, our hearts pain us when we see this: a man, the master, makes the wool of the sheep into a warm garment for himself. And the sheep has no wool". Having heard this, the sheep fled into the plain.
-----


Here's a Proto-Indo European version, from "An Introduction to Proto-Indo-European and the Early Indo-European Languages", by Joseph Voyles and Charles Barrack. 3000 BC?

-----
Owis eḱwōs kʷe
Owis, jāi wl̥nā ne eest, dedorḱe eḱwons, tom woǵʰom gʷr̥um weǵʰontm̥, tom bʰorom meǵm̥, tom ǵʰm̥onm̥ ōku bʰerontm̥. Owis eḱwobʰjos eweket: “Ḱerd angʰetai moi widontei ǵʰm̥onm̥ eḱwons aǵontm̥”. Eḱwos wewekur: “Ḱludʰe, owei! Ḱerd angʰetai widontbʰjos: ǵʰm̥on, potis, wl̥nam owijōm kʷr̥neti soi gʷʰermom westrom; owibʰjos kʷe wl̥nā ne esti”. Tod ḱeḱlōts owis aǵrom ebʰuget.
-----


And here's a few I've translated myself. (Granted, fairly quickly, so I may have been a few mistakes)


Proto-Slavic (c. 1000 BC)
-----
Awikā kabuwes če
Awikā, jāi wilnā ne bēt, widet kabuwens, tam wazom tingu wezantiām, tam nasiām welām, tam manžim āsu berantiam. Awikā kabuwimus rečet: “Sirdika anžētai majam widintiāi manžim kabuwens ganintiam”. Kabuwes rekšint: “Slaušiāiāi, awika! Sirdika anžētai widintiamus: manžis, patis, wilnām awijam dēneti sai teplām apidēdiām; awikāmus če wilnā ne esti”. Tad slūšēwas awikā paliam aubēže.
-----

Notes: Obviously vocabulary is a bit of a problem at times, but I tried to remove all words here that do not have Slavic cognates. A few, such as *āsu "quickly", do not exist in Slavic as independent words, but do appear in compounds, as in Russian ястреб "hawk"; another is *potis, which survives in господь "lord". I also kept the mediopassive verb forms here; I'm not sure how long they survived into Balto-Slavic, but given that Old Church Slavonic has at least one mediopassive form in pristine condition (вѣдѣ "I know") and the new mediopassive was only just beginning to really appear by OCS times, I'm going to assume the mediopassives lasted into at least the earliest stages of Proto-Slavic.


Common Slavic (c. 800 AD)
-----
Ovьca i kobni
Ovьca, na nejiže ne bě vьlna, uvide kobnь, togo vezǫtja tęgъkъ vozъ, togo velikǫ nosjǫ, togo bystrě nesǫtja mǫži. Ovьca kobnemъ reče: “Sьrdьce moje goritь koda vidjǫ, kako mǫžь ženetь kobnь”. Kobni rěšę: “Slušaji, ovьce! Sьrdьce goritь otъ uvidenьnajego: mǫžь, gospodь, jьzъ ovьkji wilny dělajetь si teplǫ odēdjǫ; a ovьca vьlnǫ ne jьmastь”. Uslyšavъ to ovьca uběže vъ polje.
-----

This is mostly a continuation of the above, but also incorporating a more typical Slavic syntax, with more use of conjunctions instead of participles and prepositions instead of bare locatives.



Modern Russian
-----
Ovca i koni
Ovca, na kotoroj ne bylo šersti, uvidela konej, odnogo vezuščego tjažëluju povozku, odnogo bol'šuju nošu, odnogo bystro nesuščego čeloveka. Ovca skazala konjam: “Mojë serdce gorit kogda vižu, kak čelovek upravljajet konjami”. Koni skazali: “Slušaj, ovca! Serdce gorit ot uvidennogo: čelovek, gospodin, iz oveč'jei šersti delajet sebe tëpluju odeždu; a u ovec net šersti”. Uslyšav eto, ovca ubežala v pole.

Овца и кони
Овца, на которой не было шерсти, увидела коней, одного везущего тяжёлую повозку, одного большую ношу, одного быстро несущего человека. Овца сказала коням: «Моё сердце горит, когда вижу, как человек управляет конями». Кони сказали: «Слушай, овца! Сердце горит от увиденного: человек, господин, из овечьей шерсти делает себе тёплую одежду; а у овец нет шерсти». Услышав это, овца убежала в поле.
-----

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Last edited by Mecislau on Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:51 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:12 pm 
Avisaru
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Oh, and before anyone tries, please do not post anything from the Dnghu website. Yes, they have "translations" of Schleicher's Fable into a number of IE protolanguages, but they're quite simply wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:55 pm 
Sanno
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Proto-Celtic (probably pre-Hallstadt?)

-----
Owis ekʷoi-kʷe
Owis, yosmūi wlānon ne esāt, ekʷūs dedorke, oinom yos trummom karrom srāge, oinom yos mārom luxtum berte, oinom-kʷe yos wirom ākus berte. Owis ekʷobi sākʷe: "Galarom esti eni mene kridyūi, kʷistyone agnās ekʷom dū wirobo." Ekʷūs sākʷar: "Klewe, owi, galarom esti eni ansrom kridyobi yom sindom kʷisyomo: wiros, tirgernos, wlānei oweis brattinom klitom swoi gniyeti. Eti-kʷe owei wlānom ne esti!" Sodesū klutūi, owis eni magos tākʷe.
-----

I've had to take a few liberties with direct translation from the PIE: in all the attested Celtic languages, the present participle is no longer productive, so I've replaced present participle clauses with regular finite subordinate clauses. However, this does not neccessarily mean that PC was the same.

Note also that the word-order here is unmarked SOV, which probably accurately reflects the state of the language at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:12 pm 
Sanno
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Here's a slightly archaizing version* in German (c. 1950 AD):

Das Schaf und die Pferde
Ein Schaf ohne Wolle sah Pferde. Eins davon zog einen schweren Wagen, ein anderes trug eine große Last, ein drittes brachte einen Mann schnell von hier nach dort. Das Schaf sagte zu den Pferden: "Es bedrückt mich zu sehen, wie die Menschen die Pferde antreiben." Die Pferde antworteten: "Hör zu, Schaf, es bedrückt uns, folgendes zu sehen: Ein Mann, der Herr, macht aus der Wolle des Schafs warme Kleidung für sich selbst. Und das Schaf hat keine Wolle mehr." Nachdem es dies gehört hatte, floh das Schaf in die Ebene.

* "slightly archaizing" as in "nobody really talks that way today, but it sounds like a traditional tale fixed in written form about half a century ago"

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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:20 pm 
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To my Slavic ears, the Proto-Slavic sounds like Lithuanian. It's fun to pick out words I understand in a Baltic-language text, even though the branches diverged (I think?) 3,000 years ago. A couple of times I was able to decipher entire sentences in Lithuanian, armed only with my knowledge of South and East Slavic.


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:26 pm 
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French

Le Mouton et les Chevaux
Un mouton qui n’avait pas de laine a vu des chevaux, un en tirant un chariot lourd, un en portant un gros charge, et un en transportant un homme rapidement. Le mouton a dit aux chevaux : « Mon cœur me blesse, en voyant un homme qui conduit les chevaux. » Les chevaux ont dit : « Écoutez, mouton, nos cœurs nous blessons quand nous voyons cela : un homme, le maître, utilise le laine du mouton pour faire un vêtement chaude pour lui-même. Et le mouton n’a pas de laine. » Après avoir entendu cela, le mouton s’est enfui aux champs.

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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:42 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:11 am 
Sumerul
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If I may:

Le Mouton et les chevaux
Un mouton qui n’avait pas de laine vit des chevaux, dont un premier tirait un chariot lourd, dont un deuxième portait un grand chargement sur le dos, et dont un troisième galopait en portant un homme. Le mouton dit aux chevaux : « Il me fait peine de voir un homme qui pousse ainsi ses chevaux. » Les chevaux répondirent : « Écoutez, mouton, ce qui nous fait peine de voir est l’homme, le maître, qui se sert de la laine de ses moutons pour faire des vêtements chauds, et les moutons qui n’ont donc plus de laine. » Ayant entendu cela, le mouton s’enfuit dans la plaine.

I don't like it, so please to improve it.


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:33 am 
Smeric
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@ Mecislau:
You think /-bn-/ was still retained as a cluster in 800 AD? That's only a few decades before our first OCS texts, where it already was simplfied to /-n-/. What's the reasoning behind that assumption?

On your Russian - "сердсе горит"??? Why not "болит"?
I also see that you try to retain words used in the Proto-Slavic texts, which makes your Russian a bit archaic (кони instead of лошади).


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:50 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:53 pm 
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'N oviglha qi non tignova aucün laina videva dels aics. Viens da lhor tirev'iens vagon gordeu, viens apoartev'iens imprest grült, es viens apoartev'iens vur rapidamint. L'oviglha zireva àls aics: "Téu mal àl coarziun, parç qe víu 'n vur menind dels aics." Els aics zirevent: "auscultetz, oviglha, noi tiennent mal àls coraziuns quand qe noi vident acest: 'n vür, el mestreu, fats dal oviglha sè laina 'n cospertour varmeu per so. Es l'oviglha non tent aucun laina." Osprei auscultind à'cest, l'oviglha fügeva àl azaghar.

(A conlang, but one based on Romance and some Germanic, with a smattering of Slavic, so technically still Indo-European.)

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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:41 am 
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Mecislau, what does the треб part in ястреб mean? Is it related at all to words like требование, употреблять, etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:33 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:37 pm 
Avisaru
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Here's a stab at Old English:

Se Eow ond Þā Eos
Ēow, þe ne wull hæfde, seah ēos, ānne hefigne wegn pulliendne, ānne micelne berendne, ānne guman snelle berendne. Ēow ēom cwæþ: min heorte me þrǣsteþ, guman ēos drīfendne to sēonne. Ēos cwǣdon: "Hlysn, ēow. Ūr heortan ūs þrǣstaþ þis to sēonne: guma, hlāford þæs ēowes wull seolfes wearmum wǣdum to āwendanne. And ēow nāne wulle hæfþ." Ēow, þǣm gehȳred, þǣm æcre flēah.

The use of eow for "sheep" and eoh for "horse" was because of their cognate status with owis and ekwos, though they would probably sound rather marked in actual Old English. I was unsure about some parts of the grammar, so if you see any mistakes, please let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:57 am 
Sanno
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Here's Proto-Germanic (taken from: Wolfram Euler, Sprache und Herkunft der Germanen (2009), p. 213):

Awiz eχwôz-uχe
Awis, þazmai wullô ne wase, eχwanz gasáχwe, ainan kurun waganan wegandun, anþeran mekelôn burþînun, þridjanôn gumanun berandun. Awiz eχwamiz kwaþe: "Χertôn gaángwjedai mez seχwandi eχwanz gumanun akandun." Eχwôz kwêdund: "Gaχáusî, awi, χertôn gaángwjedai unsez seχwandumiz: gumô, faþiz awjôn wullôn sez warman westran garwidi; avimiz wullô ne esti." Þat gaχáusijandz awiz akran þlauχe.


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:34 am 
Sumerul
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A not-so-literal translation into Dutch:

Het schaap en de paarden
Een schaap zonder wol zag drie paarden; een van hen trok een zware wagen, een droeg een zware last en een rende met een man op zijn rug. Het schaap zei tegen de paarden: "Het doet me pijn om te zien dat een mens paarden ment." De paarden zeiden: "Luister, schaap, het doet ons pijn om het volgende te zien: een mens, de meester, maakt van het wol van een schaap een warm kledingstuk voor zichzelf. En het schaap zit zonder wol." Toen het schaap dit hoorde vluchtte het de vlakte op.

I really cannot stay closer to the original (English) without violating my sense of grammatical correctness, though alternatives are possible, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Schleicher's Fable
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:40 pm 
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