I think they've gotten away from this somewhat. But this is generally the problem I have with the theory. Well, that and other things.finlay wrote:and according to generative grammar, all languages are essentially english (that's the impression i always got, anyway )
Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Valencian an Catalan being the same language.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
I once got into an argument with an Egyptian friend here who said that there weren't any Coptic/Ancient Egyptian loanwords in Egyptian Arabic/no influence from the aforesaid langs on Egyptian Arabic. Then he went to ask a professor of his at his Egyptology school, and got scolded for being an idiot. And I got an apology
لا يرقىء الله عيني من بكى حجراً
ولا شفى وجد من يصبو إلى وتدِ
("May God never dry the tears of those who cry over stones, nor ease the love-pangs of those who yearn for tent-pegs.") - Abu Nawas
ولا شفى وجد من يصبو إلى وتدِ
("May God never dry the tears of those who cry over stones, nor ease the love-pangs of those who yearn for tent-pegs.") - Abu Nawas
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Are you saying that's an example of quackery? Because I can't even tell when I'm reading something written in "Valencian" until I hit a shibboleth like seua, vinguera, or eixida.TallaFerroXIV wrote:Valencian an Catalan being the same language.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Not so much quackery as ignorance of dialectal differences; it's probably not that different from confusing Galician and Portuguese.linguoboy wrote:Are you saying that's an example of quackery? Because I can't even tell when I'm reading something written in "Valencian" until I hit a shibboleth like seua, vinguera, or eixida.TallaFerroXIV wrote:Valencian an Catalan being the same language.
Zompist's Markov generator wrote:it was labelled" orange marmalade," but that is unutterably hideous.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Actually, it is. I would go so far as to say that those who think they're distinct are the ones confusing dialectal differences. Many supposedly distinctive "Valencian" features are actually common to other dialects--seua, for instance, is also found in Western Catalan.Nancy Blackett wrote:Not so much quackery as ignorance of dialectal differences; it's probably not that different from confusing Galician and Portuguese.linguoboy wrote:Are you saying that's an example of quackery? Because I can't even tell when I'm reading something written in "Valencian" until I hit a shibboleth like seua, vinguera, or eixida.TallaFerroXIV wrote:Valencian an Catalan being the same language.
Have a look at this sample:
The only features that identify this to me as Valencian rather than Standard Catalan (aside from its provenance) are:Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua wrote:[L]a llengua pròpia i històrica dels valencians, des del punt de vista de la filologia, és també la que compartixen les comunitats autònomes de Catalunya i de les Illes Balears i el Principat d’Andorra. Així mateix és la llengua històrica i pròpia d’altres territoris de l’antiga Corona d’Aragó (la franja oriental aragonesa, la ciutat sarda de l’Alguer i el departament francés dels Pirineus Orientals). Els diferents parlars de tots estos territoris constituïxen una llengua, és a dir, un mateix «sistema lingüístic», segons la terminologia del primer estructuralisme (annex 1) represa en el Dictamen del Consell Valencià de Cultura, que figura com a preàmbul de la Llei de Creació de l’AVL. Dins d’eixe conjunt de parlars, el valencià té la mateixa jerarquia i dignitat que qualsevol altra modalitat territorial del sistema lingüístic, i presenta unes característiques pròpies que l’AVL preservarà i potenciarà d’acord amb la tradició lexicogràfica i literària pròpia, la realitat lingüística valenciana i la normativització consolidada a partir de les Normes de Castelló."
1. The inchoative augment -ix (Standard Catalan: -eix) in comparteixen and constituïxen.
2. The presence of the medial demonstrative eixe. (Technically found in Standard Catalan as well, but IME seldom if ever used because of its absence from the colloquial in most regions.)
That is literally all. Change these three words and I would've said this passage was in Standard Catalan. You can't find me a Galician passage of comparable length where that is true.
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
^that is correctíssimlinguoboy wrote:Actually, it is. I would go so far as to say that those who think they're distinct are the ones confusing dialectal differences. Many supposedly distinctive "Valencian" features are actually common to other dialects--seua, for instance, is also found in Western Catalan.Nancy Blackett wrote:Not so much quackery as ignorance of dialectal differences; it's probably not that different from confusing Galician and Portuguese.linguoboy wrote:Are you saying that's an example of quackery? Because I can't even tell when I'm reading something written in "Valencian" until I hit a shibboleth like seua, vinguera, or eixida.TallaFerroXIV wrote:Valencian an Catalan being the same language.
Have a look at this sample:The only features that identify this to me as Valencian rather than Standard Catalan (aside from its provenance) are:Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua wrote:[L]a llengua pròpia i històrica dels valencians, des del punt de vista de la filologia, és també la que compartixen les comunitats autònomes de Catalunya i de les Illes Balears i el Principat d’Andorra. Així mateix és la llengua històrica i pròpia d’altres territoris de l’antiga Corona d’Aragó (la franja oriental aragonesa, la ciutat sarda de l’Alguer i el departament francés dels Pirineus Orientals). Els diferents parlars de tots estos territoris constituïxen una llengua, és a dir, un mateix «sistema lingüístic», segons la terminologia del primer estructuralisme (annex 1) represa en el Dictamen del Consell Valencià de Cultura, que figura com a preàmbul de la Llei de Creació de l’AVL. Dins d’eixe conjunt de parlars, el valencià té la mateixa jerarquia i dignitat que qualsevol altra modalitat territorial del sistema lingüístic, i presenta unes característiques pròpies que l’AVL preservarà i potenciarà d’acord amb la tradició lexicogràfica i literària pròpia, la realitat lingüística valenciana i la normativització consolidada a partir de les Normes de Castelló."
1. The inchoative augment -ix (Standard Catalan: -eix) in comparteixen and constituïxen.
2. The presence of the medial demonstrative eixe. (Technically found in Standard Catalan as well, but IME seldom if ever used because of its absence from the colloquial in most regions.)
That is literally all. Change these three words and I would've said this passage was in Standard Catalan. You can't find me a Galician passage of comparable length where that is true.
I live at the border of Valenicia and Catalunya and have to keep hearin about all this dialectal shit. If you say to someone from my village that he's speaking a transitional dialect he'll start flaming you with stuff like: "Then Catalan is a dielect of spanish and french!".
The Valencian-Catalan conflict is mostly used by the shitty politicians we have here and their shitty politics.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Correct. I would add the use of estos (este -a -os -es, which is aquest -a -s -es in my dialect), although you find it in Western Catalan too (my grandma, who was from la Terra Alta (SW Catalonia), used it) and, also, the acute accent in francés, which would be grave (francès) in the other dialects.linguoboy wrote:Have a look at this sample:The only features that identify this to me as Valencian rather than Standard Catalan (aside from its provenance) are:Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua wrote:[L]a llengua pròpia i històrica dels valencians, des del punt de vista de la filologia, és també la que compartixen les comunitats autònomes de Catalunya i de les Illes Balears i el Principat d’Andorra. Així mateix és la llengua històrica i pròpia d’altres territoris de l’antiga Corona d’Aragó (la franja oriental aragonesa, la ciutat sarda de l’Alguer i el departament francés dels Pirineus Orientals). Els diferents parlars de tots estos territoris constituïxen una llengua, és a dir, un mateix «sistema lingüístic», segons la terminologia del primer estructuralisme (annex 1) represa en el Dictamen del Consell Valencià de Cultura, que figura com a preàmbul de la Llei de Creació de l’AVL. Dins d’eixe conjunt de parlars, el valencià té la mateixa jerarquia i dignitat que qualsevol altra modalitat territorial del sistema lingüístic, i presenta unes característiques pròpies que l’AVL preservarà i potenciarà d’acord amb la tradició lexicogràfica i literària pròpia, la realitat lingüística valenciana i la normativització consolidada a partir de les Normes de Castelló."
1. The inchoative augment -ix (Standard Catalan: -eix) in comparteixen and constituïxen.
2. The presence of the medial demonstrative eixe. (Technically found in Standard Catalan as well, but IME seldom if ever used because of its absence from the colloquial in most regions.)
That is literally all. Change these three words and I would've said this passage was in Standard Catalan. You can't find me a Galician passage of comparable length where that is true.
Un llapis mai dibuixa sense una mà.
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
The also use the article lo instead of el.
Phonetically, Valencians have no reduction in their non stressed vowels.
Phonetically, Valencians have no reduction in their non stressed vowels.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Differences between Welsh dialects include:TallaFerroXIV wrote:The also use the article lo instead of el.
Phonetically, Valencians have no reduction in their non stressed vowels.
* Form of the demonstrative
* Form of the third person singular masculine pronoun
* Degrees of gender concord
* Use of plural adjectives
* Mergers of different tense/aspect combinations
* Degree of verbal inflection
* Sizable lexical differences
And yet we still call them the same language. Why do you believe that a few minor lexical differences and an accent equate to a separate language?
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
I posted this here because I think IT IS just bull šit that Catalan and Valencian ARE considered different languages. As I stated earlier.YngNghymru wrote:Differences between Welsh dialects include:TallaFerroXIV wrote:The also use the article lo instead of el.
Phonetically, Valencians have no reduction in their non stressed vowels.
* Form of the demonstrative
* Form of the third person singular masculine pronoun
* Degrees of gender concord
* Use of plural adjectives
* Mergers of different tense/aspect combinations
* Degree of verbal inflection
* Sizable lexical differences
And yet we still call them the same language. Why do you believe that a few minor lexical differences and an accent equate to a separate language?
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Yep. You Fail Linguistics Forever, indeed.Now the question is, when an original parent language, Sanskrit, is already in existence, why was the ‘Proto-Indo-European’ term designed, and, instead of deriving the ancestral relationship of the languages of the world with the Sanskrit language through the findings of the Sanskrit apbhransh in them, why was an inferior parallelism of the Sanskrit language drawn along with the Greek and Latin languages?
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Ahh, I must have missed that. In that case I apologise.#TallaFerroXIV wrote:
I posted this here because I think IT IS just bull šit that Catalan and Valencian ARE considered different languages. As I stated earlier.
Also in English we say 'shit'.
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!
short texts in Cuhbi
Risha Cuhbi grammar
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
-listverse.com(...)The Korean language has over 600 different word endings to be used in different social situations, depending upon seniority. This makes Korean the hardest language in the world to learn, despite its simple 24 letter alphabet (Hangul).
Well.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
You know what I love about the Web? We've finally reached the point where an example of almost any kind of jackassery imaginable is within easy reach. Case in point: One poster was telling another that Sanskrit tattoos are passe, African language ones are much cooler. So I Googled "Sanskrit African language" and found her evidence that Sanskrit is an African language!
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Sal thinks this is offensive.
.
Last edited by TomHChappell on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
!!Japanese is a combination of many Nigerian languages.
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Is it just me, or are these examples of linguistic fail getting more and more hilariously outrageous?
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Where do I get the strange mushrooms that guy smokes?linguoboy wrote:You know what I love about the Web? We've finally reached the point where an example of almost any kind of jackassery imaginable is within easy reach. Case in point: One poster was telling another that Sanskrit tattoos are passe, African language ones are much cooler. So I Googled "Sanskrit African language" and found her evidence that Sanskrit is an African language!
...brought to you by the Weeping Elf
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A
Tha cvastam émi cvastam santham amal phelsa. -- Friedrich Schiller
ESTAR-3SG:P human-OBJ only human-OBJ true-OBJ REL-LOC play-3SG:A
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
My favorite Finnish linguistics quackery are the theories of the late Sigurd Wettenhovi-Aspa. Unfortunately, they are not discussed in the English Wikipedia page on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_Wettenhovi-Aspa
If you can read Finnish, or at least are willing to look at his etymologies, you can follow the link to the Finnish page. Basically, his claim was that all languages in the world are derived from a Finnish-Egyptian protolanguage. His proofs were of the typical sort: namely, he derived various words and names in foreign languages from Modern Finnish words in very creative ways. This is not so original, but his derivations are so utterly amusing that I, as a Finnish speaker, cannot but admire them.
Of course, I am by no means convinced of any of this stuff. I'm not even sure if this fine gentleman was being completely serious with his theories either. In fact, the Finnish Wikipedia article mentions the possibility that he was satirising some of the current linguistic theories of his time on purpose.
This is the Finnish section you might want to skim evne if you can't read it.
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_Wet ... en_taustat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_Wettenhovi-Aspa
If you can read Finnish, or at least are willing to look at his etymologies, you can follow the link to the Finnish page. Basically, his claim was that all languages in the world are derived from a Finnish-Egyptian protolanguage. His proofs were of the typical sort: namely, he derived various words and names in foreign languages from Modern Finnish words in very creative ways. This is not so original, but his derivations are so utterly amusing that I, as a Finnish speaker, cannot but admire them.
Of course, I am by no means convinced of any of this stuff. I'm not even sure if this fine gentleman was being completely serious with his theories either. In fact, the Finnish Wikipedia article mentions the possibility that he was satirising some of the current linguistic theories of his time on purpose.
This is the Finnish section you might want to skim evne if you can't read it.
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd_Wet ... en_taustat
"At his peak in 1990, the toad controlled more than $10 billion in financial investments, making its owner the world’s largest individual stock investor." -- Alex Kerr, Dogs and Demons
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
That Proto-Finno-Egyptian actually sounds like a good conlang idea
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
This video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
explains how all words can be traced back to Ancient Egyptian, and that Atlantean was actual a native american language.
explains how all words can be traced back to Ancient Egyptian, and that Atlantean was actual a native american language.
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
Nōn quālibet inīquā cupiditāte illectus hoc agō
Yo te pongo en tu lugar...
Taisc mach Daró
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Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
Noe itte duzzent.Bristel wrote:This video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
explains how all words can be traced back to Ancient Egyptian, and that Atlantean was actual a native american language.
The Conlanger Formerly Known As Aiďos
Re: Linguistic Quackery Thread, take 2
You mean it explains how you are an insufferable cunt.Bristel wrote:This video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
explains how all words can be traced back to Ancient Egyptian, and that Atlantean was actual a native american language.