Seahorses, I Love 'Em (& other Links of Interest)

[brandrinn]

The danger is that, over time, the usage of our generation will grow so different from the usage of previous generations that we will find their works impossibly foreign, as though we essentially speak in another dialect.

Hahahahaha, oh they're serious...

"Akhmed, what did you learn in madrassa today?"
"Sheet, mom, it ain't nothing but a bunch a' hamzas and qaffs in that book they got."
"Are you talking about the Qur'an? But it's the backbone of our literary heritage!"
"Yeeuh, bitch. I'm all like, 'I can't read none of that shit, yo,' and they be goin' crazy over it."
"Alas, how could we have allowed our language to change so much over fourteen hundred years! Oh Islam, how I weep at your passing."
"I cain understand a word yo sayin', mom."

[schwhatever]

Precisely, by pretending that a word being excluded from the OED permabans it from reality, they're actually encouraging that situation. They might as well try to fight gravity. Not to mention, there's something deliciously slippery-slope about their argument that OED including OMG and LOL will result in death and destruction the loss of literary wonders. Because no one reads the Iliad anymore, that fucking Ancient Greek.

[brandrinn]

Precisely, by pretending that a word being excluded from the OED permabans it from reality, they're actually encouraging that situation. They might as well try to fight gravity. Not to mention, there's something deliciously slippery-slope about their argument that OED including OMG and LOL will result in death and destruction the loss of literary wonders. Because no one reads the Iliad anymore, that fucking Ancient Greek.

good point. the reason the OED is descriptive instead of prescriptive is partly because nobody looks in the OED to learn how they should speak. It's the place you go to look up what you hear, not what vocabulary you ought to learn or forget.

The interesting part for me is that he seems to believe the English language was invented around 1700. Every word was new once, and those delicious Latinate words he rolls on his tongue like Jolly Ranchers are among the newest. I can see a Saxon scribe moaning that the world is going to hell thanks to innovations like "acquire" and "beef."

[Nortaneous]

I can see a Saxon scribe moaning that the world is going to hell thanks to innovations like "acquire" and "beef."

they did

[TomHChappell]

.

[Nortaneous]

"Our own tung shold be written cleane and pure, vnmixt and vnmangeled with borrowing of other tunges" - John Cheke, 1562

[patiku]

I don't think there were any Saxon scribes around in 1562 but wikipedia would know for sure.

[Aurora Rossa]

"Our own tung shold be written cleane and pure, vnmixt and vnmangeled with borrowing of other tunges" - John Cheke, 1562

Was he referring to Latin borrowings, though?

[finlay]

Certainly; Latin borrowing didn't just stop magically before the 16th century. It was really French borrowing around the turn of the millennium and Latin borrowing beginning around the 15th/16th centuries... it was always ongoing, and they're both Latinate, but the source itself did change at some point.

Of course the other irony here is that "mix", "mangle" and "pure" entered the language via French. This pattern (hypocrisy) is also repeated constantly throughout history.

[Viktor77]

The interesting part for me is that he seems to believe the English language was invented around 1700.

I hold this strange grudge against people who hold the English language in such high-esteem. They write books on proper prose and grammar and toot the English language as more than what it is which is just a language. We speak a Germanic language, a heavily influenced Germanic language, but nonetheless, just one of thousands of languages. There's nothing special about our language save its large vocabulary and the influence its speakers have on the world. As I see it, English is equal to Lithuanian, to Maori, to Nivkh, etc.[/rant]

[TomHChappell]

.

[Bob Johnson]

"Our own tung shold be written cleane and pure, vnmixt and vnmangeled with borrowing of other tunges" - John Cheke, 1562

Hmm, 1562 looks like a publication date rather than a writing date -- Cheke died in '57. Extended quote: http://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Libr ... cheke.html

France's "mission civilizatrice" may (or may not) be ended in its people's imaginations, but a few speakers and writers of French are even now hell-bent on "preserving" its "purity".

walkman → baladeur

[TomHChappell]

.

[finlay]

This pattern (hypocrisy) is also repeated constantly throughout history.

and not limited to English-speakers, nor to speakers about English.

You.... don't say. I mean, that is after all why I said "throughout history" rather than "throughout the history of writings on the subject of the English language".

[TomHChappell]

.

[Ser]

Does anyone know whether every "imperial language" has had some minority (more than just one prominent exemplar) of its speakers who felt that way about it? I can't @tm think of any Spanish or Portuguese or Italian or Swedish or Danish examples.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that you've never heard of people being purist/prescriptivist about Spanish? Trust me, they're everywhere. Everywhere.

*loads the ametralladora in panic*

[Risla]

Argument structure in gay porn.

[Terra]

"Our own tung shold be written cleane and pure, vnmixt and vnmangeled with borrowing of other tunges" - John Cheke, 1562

"pure" is French/Latin word, ironically.

[finlay]

Haven't been reading through the thread properly, have you?

Risla: lol. Apparently there's a mailing list for gay linguists that he runs, incidentally. Kinda tempted to join...

[Ars Lande]

... but a few speakers and writers of French are even now hell-bent on "preserving" its "purity".

walkman → baladeur

For French academicians to attempt to "preserve" France's "purity" is like the DoMA trying to "defend" marriage.[/quote]

The Academy is a joke, and has been so for centuries: nobody in France cares about what they prescripe - let alone know who sits on the meetings - but I can understand their position. They're a prescriptivist, not a descriptivist body. I'll be the devil advocate here; I don't worry about preserving the purity of the French language - it's old enough to take care of itself, and often it's best to just borrow the word rather than improvise a clumsy neologism. But as a writer, I care about style and clarity of expression and after attending too many business meetings and reading too many design documents, I can tell you that the overuse of English borrowings improve neither.
FWIW l'Office Québecois de la Langue Française seems to be a lot harsher.

Walkman → baladeur is an interesting example; the "native" term had some success; but is entirely irrelevant now that both words have been replaced by MP3 (in popular speech, any iPod-like device). There was some kind of a controversy over CD-ROM as well, which seems quite absurd now.

[jal]

both words have been replaced by MP3

That's an interesting pars pro toto.


JAL

[dhok]

"CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Police say an Alum Creek man high on bath salts killed his neighbor's pygmy goat and that neighbors found him in his bedroom, dressed in a bra and panties, next to the dead animal, said Lt. Bryan Stover of the Kanawha County Sheriff's Department."

[Nortaneous]

http://unreasonablydangerousonionrings. ... han-i.html

[jal]

http://unreasonablydangerousonionrings. ... han-i.html

I almost actually LOLd there.


JAL

[Viktor77]

Radical Jewish newspaper photoshops Hillary Clinton and another woman out of White House photo.