On the pronunciation of English -ing
- schwhatever
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Yeah, I have [e] or [eI] (not sure) in Genghis Kahn and penguin (although I'd understand some one who used for the last one).
[quote="Jar Jar Binks"]Now, by making just a few small changes, we prettify the orthography for happier socialist tomorrow![/quote][quote="Xonen"]^ WHS. Except for the log thing and the Andean panpipers.[/quote]
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Somewhat. Maybe not you guys, but who knows what our friend Google might bring inDrydic Guy wrote:Because, clearly, we are all stalkers who only want to find and CENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSORED with rivets.Travis B. wrote:But Bedelato, why are you so ambiguous about where you are from here? NAE varieties are not nearly as homogeneous as you may think they are; saying you are from the US is not saying much here at all.
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Protip: A state would be specific enough for determining accent and non-specific enough not to attract stalking. Even a rough area (Midwest, Northeast etc) would be good enough for your rough accent.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
schwhatever wrote:Yeah, I have [e] or [eI] (not sure) in Genghis Kahn and penguin (although I'd understand some one who used for the last one).
I have [ɛ] in both of those.
finlay wrote:Protip: A state would be specific enough for determining accent and non-specific enough not to attract stalking. Even a rough area (Midwest, Northeast etc) would be good enough for your rough accent.
I'll have to think about it
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Please do. Right now it's like:
A: Help 911! I'm being stabbed!
B: Ok, caller where are you located?
A: Oh you know, one of those streets with a stop sign by it.
A: Help 911! I'm being stabbed!
B: Ok, caller where are you located?
A: Oh you know, one of those streets with a stop sign by it.
In every U.S. presidential election between 1976 and 2004, the Republican nominee for president or for vice president was either a Dole or a Bush.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I have this! Actually I probably have some variation between [in] and [iŋ]~[ɪŋ] for -ing; but the velar nasal feels slightly foreign to me, like it belongs to another dialect (or maybe a spelling pronunciation). The primary difference between running and runnin' isn't the nasal for me, it's the vowel (/in/ vs. /ɪn/~/ən/). I remember noticing this years and years ago (maybe in high school).
It's not a general sound change as far as I can tell... unless maybe it applies only to unstressed /ɪŋ/? I normally have [ɪŋ] in words like king, ring, etc. (although since moving to California I probably have some tensing creeping in). On the other hand, according to Finlay English is supposed to start with /ɪŋ/, but I think for me it's [iŋ].
I don't have the pin-pen merger (although I think some people where I grew up do), and I have [ɛŋ] in penguin. I do have some tensing of /æ/ before nasals, though (as do most American accents I think).
I grew up in Columbus, Ohio.
It's not a general sound change as far as I can tell... unless maybe it applies only to unstressed /ɪŋ/? I normally have [ɪŋ] in words like king, ring, etc. (although since moving to California I probably have some tensing creeping in). On the other hand, according to Finlay English is supposed to start with /ɪŋ/, but I think for me it's [iŋ].
I don't have the pin-pen merger (although I think some people where I grew up do), and I have [ɛŋ] in penguin. I do have some tensing of /æ/ before nasals, though (as do most American accents I think).
I grew up in Columbus, Ohio.
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard
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- schwhatever
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
At least in my idiolect, there's no [IN] - king, ring, drink are [k_hiN r\`iN dz`_e)r\`iNk]
[quote="Jar Jar Binks"]Now, by making just a few small changes, we prettify the orthography for happier socialist tomorrow![/quote][quote="Xonen"]^ WHS. Except for the log thing and the Andean panpipers.[/quote]
- Drydic
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Report to the local Inquisition office immediately, heretic.schwhatever wrote:At least in my idiolect, there's no [IN] - king, ring, drink are [k_hiN r\`iN dz`_e)r\`iNk]
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
For me, <drink> [dZr\i~Nk_}]. This remains unaltered from how I learned it, but the pin-pen merger I worked to undo in my everyday speech (just as a matter of aesthetics).
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Except in that case it's justified. You can trust the emergency services with your address. Some stranger you meet in an online forum, not so much. ...Wait a minute, how can you use a phone while being stabbed, anyway?sirred wrote:Please do. Right now it's like:
A: Help 911! I'm being stabbed!
B: Ok, caller where are you located?
A: Oh you know, one of those streets with a stop sign by it.
...Yes, TV Tropes ruined my life. Don't mention it.
Okay, I'll tell you. But if some stalker finds and CENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSOREDCENSORED with rivets, guess what bulletin board I'll be blaming
I live in Texas right now, and I lived in California before that. But hold on, before you go stereotyping, let me enumerate the features of my accent for the nth time. Because my accent is not at all stereotypical of either region.
Some features my accent shares with those regional dialects (not sorted):
- Cot-caught merger
- Mary-marry-merry merger
- Æ-tensing before /m/ and /n/; /æ/ is realized as something like [eə] in this environment
- /æ/ becomes [e] before /ŋ/ (however, it still belongs to the TRAP set); I prefer to analyze this as part of pre-nasal Æ-tensing
- Back vowels /ou ʊ u/ are fronted to approximately (IMI) [œu ɵ ʉ], but they remain back before /r l/
- Preservation of /l/ in words like <talk> (though this might be a spelling pronunciation)
- Mirror-nearer merger
- Pin-pen merger
- California vowel shift (unless you count the fronting mentioned above)
- Southern vowel shift (again, unless you count back-vowel fronting)
- Pretty much anything you'll find on Wikipedia related to these regional dialects but not found on the first list
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I think you're safe, given that you come from the two most populous states in the union.
Besides, the less attention you draw to it, the better, probably. And there are plenty of us on here that give out more information than is strictly healthy (it'd be less work for your axe-wielding murderer to go after one of us). hell, you even know what city I'm in and everything...
Besides, the less attention you draw to it, the better, probably. And there are plenty of us on here that give out more information than is strictly healthy (it'd be less work for your axe-wielding murderer to go after one of us). hell, you even know what city I'm in and everything...
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Yes, I'm fully aware that I'm repeating myself here. But I just can't help it. Showing off my idiolect is fun.schwhatever wrote:Agreed. In coastal northern California (and I'm thinking in good sections of souther California too, but not sure), there's a pretty concise set of vowel mergers regarding specific following nasals, so there's (at least among locals) virtually no free variation like (according to this thread) in other USA dialects. The almost entirely universal mergers (among speakers and among words) that come to mind:Drydic Guy wrote:Yes, yes you can. Most people really don't move all that far from where they grew up, generally.Bedelato wrote:Some of you mentioned California dialects. I'll look into that, but what with air travel and all that, you can't exactly pinpoint a regional accent anymore.
-pen-pin which is pretty common elsewhere too - I E > I* /_n (exception for certain Bay Area idiolects)
-lennon-lenin which is a little more rare - I @ > I* /_n (near universal)
-{ tensing isn't just for the NCVS anymore - eI E*** { > e** /_N (near universal)
-I tensing - I i > i /_N
Supposedly the second to last one (the tensing of /{/) is part of a larger California shift where [{~], that is /{/ before a nasal, is rising compared to [{], that is everywhere else, which is being backed towards [a]. I don't hear this in either my idiolect or nearby ones, but it might be more common that I think. In either case, there's a lot
TL;DR: The entire vowel system is being reorganized in California, and it's progressed the furthest in nasal and rhotic environments.
*Exact quality is a little dicey. I think it's something around I_- in that it's a lot more central and back than [i.] but not quite [I\] or [1].
**The rising diphthongs /eI oU/ are getting a lot closer to [e: o:] in certain contexts and I think this might be one of them.
***I can't think of any instances of [EN] IMD which seems suspicious since there's also no [{N] at all, does any one have [EN] anywhere for comparison?
The only thing I have out of all those is the /æ/→[ẽ] before /ŋ/, which I consider part of the whole /æ/-tensing thing. Before /m/ and /n/, this is diphthongized to [eə].
/ɛŋ/ remains [ɛ̃ŋ], so eng and ang would remain distinct.
At, casteda dus des ometh coisen at tusta o diédem thum čisbugan. Ai, thiosa če sane búem mos sil, ne?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Also, I broke all your metal ropes and used them to feed the cheeseburgers. Yes, today just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
On thinking about it a little more, I believe that my /ɪŋ/ is tenser when it's followed by /k/ or /g/: so I have something closer to [iŋ] in think, drink, England, but closer to [ɪŋ] in king, ring, wing.
It also occurs to me that I (of course) have for word-final -y (including in -ly); surely that's connected to having in -ing?
It also occurs to me that I (of course) have for word-final -y (including in -ly); surely that's connected to having in -ing?
Hüwryaasûr, priestess of the four hegemons, wrote:Ryunshurshuroshan, the floating lizard
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
The city of Edinburgh, pop: 477,660.finlay wrote:I think you're safe, given that you come from the two most populous states in the union.
Besides, the less attention you draw to it, the better, probably. And there are plenty of us on here that give out more information than is strictly healthy (it'd be less work for your axe-wielding murderer to go after one of us). hell, you even know what city I'm in and everything...
The country of Iceland, pop: 318,452.
I think you're safe too, Finlay.
In every U.S. presidential election between 1976 and 2004, the Republican nominee for president or for vice president was either a Dole or a Bush.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
True, true, just making a clumsy point.
I've also met plenty of ZBBers, none of whom have been axe-wielding murderers – although there hasn't been a proper meet up in quite a few years, I still occasionally see jmcd, and Rory if he's in the country (bastard went to America grumble grumble).
I've also met plenty of ZBBers, none of whom have been axe-wielding murderers – although there hasn't been a proper meet up in quite a few years, I still occasionally see jmcd, and Rory if he's in the country (bastard went to America grumble grumble).
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
I've heard a guy here in Malta saying /ɪŋkʼ/ , but that's just Maltese weirdness.
(As for the axe-murdering, you have a 1/400k chance of finding me... I should be scared)
(As for the axe-murdering, you have a 1/400k chance of finding me... I should be scared)
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
It's ok. We'll just fly around the island(s) chucking axes out the back of the plane. We'll find you eventually.Simmalti wrote:I've heard a guy here in Malta saying /ɪŋkʼ/ , but that's just Maltese weirdness.
(As for the axe-murdering, you have a 1/400k chance of finding me... I should be scared)
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Hm. Does Sam's Club sell axes? That seems like something we'd need in bulk unless we're just reusing one 400000 times. Also, it'd be great if it sold plane fuel too.
In every U.S. presidential election between 1976 and 2004, the Republican nominee for president or for vice president was either a Dole or a Bush.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Am I the only person who still has /ŋg/ in all positions for <ng>? i.e. the ng in finger and running are both pronounced the same: /fɪŋgə/ and /ɹʊnɪŋg/, and the two ng's in 'singing' are also both the same for me: /sɪŋgɪŋg/
You've caught me at a bad time, so why don't you piss off?
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Yes, you are.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
It's typical in the North West of England and the Midlands, so no, you're not weird, unless you count being from Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham as weird in and of itself, which many people would do.
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Bloody English.finlay wrote:It's typical in the North West of England and the Midlands, so no, you're not weird, unless you count being from Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham as weird in and of itself, which many people would do.
Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
Wikipedia has a delightful map:
I would love to know, incidentally, whether the pattern extends into bordering areas of Wales, particularly what I think is known as the A55 corridor where people from the crowded cities in that part of England spread into Wales, much to the chagrin of the nationalists...
I would love to know, incidentally, whether the pattern extends into bordering areas of Wales, particularly what I think is known as the A55 corridor where people from the crowded cities in that part of England spread into Wales, much to the chagrin of the nationalists...
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Re: On the pronunciation of English -ing
When I pronounce "ing" fully (with an /N/ instead of an /n/) the vowel is a glide, namely [Ii].
In fact, all my front lax vowels have an offglide before /N/ or /g/.
Thus:
hang [h{iN] /h{N/
egg [Eig] /Eg/
big [bIig] /bIg/
In fact, all my front lax vowels have an offglide before /N/ or /g/.
Thus:
hang [h{iN] /h{N/
egg [Eig] /Eg/
big [bIig] /bIg/