Language Instruction in Different Countries

[Declan]

Wait a sec... How old were those boys? And the woman?

A 30-year old could easily have a ten-year-old son and brother, if her mother was about 50 or slightly more. I know of a few cases of it too.

[hwhatting]

Wait a sec... How old were those boys? And the woman?

A 30-year old could easily have a ten-year-old son and brother, if her mother was about 50 or slightly more. I know of a few cases of it too.

I know that's possible, I just wanted to know the age.

[Qwynegold]

They get someone in to teach that one person Dzongkha on a very slim position (like 5% of a normal position).

Yeah but, where are they gonna find someone who speaks that language?

In my class, there were two boys who spoke Somali. They hired a woman to come and talk to them in that language. She was one of the boys' mother. And the other one's sister.

Mm well, Somalis aren't very uncommon in Sweden.

[Åge Kruger]

They get someone in to teach that one person Dzongkha on a very slim position (like 5% of a normal position).

Yeah but, where are they gonna find someone who speaks that language?

In my class, there were two boys who spoke Somali. They hired a woman to come and talk to them in that language. She was one of the boys' mother. And the other one's sister.

Mm well, Somalis aren't very uncommon in Sweden.

They're 0.0024 percent of the population!

NOTE: This is ethnic Somalis, not a count of the number of Somali refugees.

[Qwynegold]

They get someone in to teach that one person Dzongkha on a very slim position (like 5% of a normal position).

Yeah but, where are they gonna find someone who speaks that language?

In my class, there were two boys who spoke Somali. They hired a woman to come and talk to them in that language. She was one of the boys' mother. And the other one's sister.

Mm well, Somalis aren't very uncommon in Sweden.

They're 0.0024 percent of the population!

NOTE: This is ethnic Somalis, not a count of the number of Somali refugees.

Oh? They must be very concentrated then, because I hear Somali spoken every day. Where did you get that number from?

[Yng]

Are you sure? Can you tell something is Somali by hearing it, or do you mean 'I hear black people speaking something that isn't Swedish every day'?

[finlay]

Are you sure? Can you tell something is Somali by hearing it, or do you mean 'I hear black people speaking something that isn't Swedish every day'?

Come now, easy on the accusations of racism – you're on a board full of language geeks after all.

[Declan]

Are you sure? Can you tell something is Somali by hearing it, or do you mean 'I hear black people speaking something that isn't Swedish every day'?

Come now, easy on the accusations of racism – you're on a board full of language geeks after all.

And anyway, is it not fairly likely that black people speaking something that isn't Swedish are speaking Somali, at least in Sweden?

[Drydic]

Are you sure? Can you tell something is Somali by hearing it, or do you mean 'I hear black people speaking something that isn't Swedish every day'?

Come now, easy on the accusations of racism – you're on a board full of language geeks after all.

where are any accusations of racism in that post

[finlay]

found the tone a bit hostile is all.

[Drydic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9z3Gu9IfhU

[Chuma]

In my class, there were two boys who spoke Somali. They hired a woman to come and talk to them in that language. She was one of the boys' mother. And the other one's sister.

Wait a sec... How old were those boys? And the woman?

At first they were quite young, but then they got older...
Last I saw them they were about 15. I don't know how old the woman was, I didn't ask. She didn't look very old.

And anyway, is it not fairly likely that black people speaking something that isn't Swedish are speaking Somali, at least in Sweden?

That sounds like a bit of a leap. Ignoring those that speak English or Hindi, surely we have immigrants from a few other areas of Africa too?

[Peacekeeper]

In Sweden, you start learning English the day you begin school. Later on you can choose to learn either, Spanish, French or German

That makes me feel old - I didn't get to start until fourth grade. That was... 1994. A few years later as I recall it changed to third grade.

I think it varies from one school to the next. Back when I started learning English in 1995, everyone started in fourth grade (age 10). I am pretty sure the law hasn't changed in that regard -- at the very most it's been changed to third grade. The schools are however perfectly free to start earlier if they so choose, so most now start in the first or second grade. At least, this is my current understanding.

If it were up to me to decide, everyone in Sweden would study English from first grade, a second, European language (such as Spanish, French or German) from fourth grade, and be able to chose to study a third, world language (such as Mandarin or Arabic) from seventh grade.

[marconatrix]

Why teach *everyone* English, surely better to teach a whole variety of languages, in different schools maybe. Unless you're planning of phasing out Swedish, which is what will happen in a few generations if everyone speaks the same dominant foreign language, these days English. Do you want Swedish to end up like Irish, i.e. the official state language which nobody actually speaks and only learns to pass school exams?

[Qwynegold]

Gah, this is getting out of hand. But for the record, it's not just any black people speaking a non-Swedish language, it's Somali looking people speaking a Somali sounding language. I'll admit that there might be other minority groups that I don't know about who look similar to the Somali and whose language also sounds similar to Somali. But I think, if I see someone who looks Somali, and their language sounds like Somali, then there's a pretty good chance they are Somali. Anyway, according to Wikipedia, there were 31,734 Somalis in Sweden in 2010, making them the 10th largest minority group. This only shows where they were born and not actual ethnicity, but, again according to WP, 85% of the people in Somalia are Somali, so I think it's reasonable to assume that there are quite many Somali speaking people in Sweden.

[Bedelato]

American foreign language education is B.R.O.K.E.N. I mean, I took three years of Spanish in high school, and just two years later I can barely remember any of it. I can still read Spanish (somewhat), but I couldn't hold a conversation to save my life.

That's what you get from compulsory education laws together with mandatory foreign language instruction.

[Drydic]

American foreign language education is B.R.O.K.E.N. I mean, I took three years of Spanish in high school, and just two years later I can barely remember any of it. I can still read Spanish (somewhat), but I couldn't hold a conversation to save my life.

That's what you get from compulsory education laws together with mandatory foreign language instruction.

And your solution is what, not require a foreign language? Foreign languages need to be introduced into American schools in the 2nd or 3rd grades, it'll stand a much better chance of sticking in your head then.

[Declan]

American foreign language education is B.R.O.K.E.N. I mean, I took three years of Spanish in high school, and just two years later I can barely remember any of it. I can still read Spanish (somewhat), but I couldn't hold a conversation to save my life.

Is that a reflection on your effort to try to learn Spanish or the education system? Since you're on this board and probably know more about languages and linguistics real or otherwise that I do, I presume the latter, but I'm extremely wary of "I did so many years of X and learned nothing" because that is often said about Irish, but then I can and have lived my life perfectly happily through Irish with little or no problems except the odd vocabularly one. I'm also wary of it, because I'm of the opinion that "holding a conversation" cannot be taught. The grammar and vocabulary yes, but then one must simply practice putting that into practice, by talking. Yes, in certain circumstances, that can be taught in conversation classes, but I feel that that is time consuming and not always totally practical in a classroom setting (I mean, we have 40 minute classes in Ireland, with up to 30 students, so speaking for 1 minute individually per class is impossible), so that some homework time must be spent at it. And I'm convinced that, certainly in a majority of cases in Ireland, the problem is the desire and consistency of the student, not the education system (though that probably has its flaws too).

[Yng]

Is that a reflection on your effort to try to learn Spanish or the education system? Since you're on this board and probably know more about languages and linguistics real or otherwise that I do, I presume the latter, but I'm extremely wary of "I did so many years of X and learned nothing" because that is often said about Irish, but then I can and have lived my life perfectly happily through Irish with little or no problems except the odd vocabularly one. I'm also wary of it, because I'm of the opinion that "holding a conversation" cannot be taught. The grammar and vocabulary yes, but then one must simply practice putting that into practice, by talking. Yes, in certain circumstances, that can be taught in conversation classes, but I feel that that is time consuming and not always totally practical in a classroom setting (I mean, we have 40 minute classes in Ireland, with up to 30 students, so speaking for 1 minute individually per class is impossible), so that some homework time must be spent at it. And I'm convinced that, certainly in a majority of cases in Ireland, the problem is the desire and consistency of the student, not the education system (though that probably has its flaws too).

I agree - conversation is a matter of practice. It only takes me a few weeks of not speaking Welsh to reduce my ability to speak fluently to a mess of stammery rubbish, and switching between languages (and I've had the same experience coming back into English after a week of Welsh) isn't much fun either. That said, if Irish education is anything like Welsh education (which IIRC it is), it's not surprising people have issues with it. Welsh education here is utterly pathetic on so many levels.

[Skomakar'n]

In Sweden, you start learning English the day you begin school. Later on you can choose to learn either, Spanish, French or German

How old are you? We didn't start until third grade (I was born in 1992).

[míkl]

I started learning French in Year 6 (10), but only really did numbers one-ten and some basic phrases.

Currently at my school French is compulsory for Year 7, and then in Year 8 half of the year must do German, and the other half do Spanish (You get no choice in which one you do)

I got Spanish, and will be continuing with it for my GCSE's, but will not be continuing French.

[Chuma]

Why teach *everyone* English, surely better to teach a whole variety of languages, in different schools maybe.

Well, we do, after they learn English. But, first, of all English is by far the most useful foreign language to know around here. Second, we like to be able to talk in a language that is understood by all of us AND some other people. For example, some university courses are given in English. That wouldn't work if we all learned different languages.

[jmcd]

Why teach *everyone* English, surely better to teach a whole variety of languages, in different schools maybe.

Well, we do, after they learn English. But, first, of all English is by far the most useful foreign language to know around here. Second, we like to be able to talk in a language that is understood by all of us AND some other people. For example, some university courses are given in English. That wouldn't work if we all learned different languages.

But why teach some university courses in English? That's on the way to the marginalisation of Swedish.

[Shrdlu]

In Sweden, you start learning English the day you begin school. Later on you can choose to learn either, Spanish, French or German

How old are you? We didn't start until third grade (I was born in 1992).

I am about two years older, but I whent to some kind of slight-religous school so that might be the answer.

[Drydic]

In Sweden, you start learning English the day you begin school. Later on you can choose to learn either, Spanish, French or German

How old are you? We didn't start until third grade (I was born in 1992).

I am about two years older, but I whent to some kind of slight-religous school so that might be the answer.

I am about two years older, but I whent to some kind of slight-religous school so that might be the answer.

but I whent to some kind of slight-religous school

but I whent

whent

go die.