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zompist bboard • View topic - TC: Relative and complementizer clauses

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:45 pm 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:56 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:03 pm 
Sumerul
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And then you've got tricksy little cases like "I am a Korean", which is grammatically but not idiomatically correct – I'd normally suggest "I am Korean", using the adjective form (this is more obvious with other nationalities where the noun form is different – you can say "I am British", or "I am Scottish", or "I am French", but you can't say "I am a British", for example. The pattern of using the adjectival form is kept up with other nationalities. Your usage of the article is technically correct; it's more the fact that you've used a noun instead of an adjective...)

Anyway, I see no glaring errors other than that. To be honest, I do tend to tune out errors a fair bit, which I probably shouldn't as an EFL teacher. As I say, most of your errors seem to be idiomatic rather than grammatical. (we tend to say "raised eyebrow(s)" rather than "raised eye(s)", for instance)

As for advice, it's also countable in most other European languages, so you're not alone there. But I thought you didn't have plurals in Korean ... or am I confusing it with Japanese? (after all, somebody did say their grammars are virtually the same...)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:56 pm 
Lebom
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This is roughly how Siwa works:





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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:32 pm 
Smeric
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Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = , ACS / ICS = , GDV = , SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:42 pm 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:48 pm 
Smeric
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:56 pm 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:01 pm 
Smeric
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And just to put my lang in this thread too ...

In Xuáli, the relative clause marker is derived from the attributive marker e (which is used to introduce adjective-like attributive phrases), plus the complementiser mi / -m. Relative clauses in Xuáli must have a (or rather a resumptive proform suffix), which means it's literally a bit more like "I saw the house that Jack built it."

Na i cev-a teli em Dxek i zacu-ai
1s PRED see-OBL house REL Jack PRED build-OBL.3s.DEF.INAN
"I saw the house that Jack built (*it).

The complementiser also suffixes to the oblique suffix -a (which, as far as you need to know now, introduces objects) if the clause is the oblique modifier/direct object of a content word. In this case, it's the oblique modifier of dul ("know, one who knows (a fact)")

Na i dul-am Dxek i zacu-a mu teli
1s PRED know-OBL.COMP Jack PRED build-OBL DEM.3 house
"I know that Jack built that house."

In relative clause in which the the role of the resumptive pronoun is a clause modifier (such as time, manner or place), the resumptive pronoun may either occur in an adverbial phrase at the end of the clause (as in the first example, or may be fronted to the beginning of the clause (as in the second example). This fronting is possible in main clauses as well, and is handled the same way as topic fronting in Xuáli. A fronted phrase or topic may be followed by do (≈ 'then, thus') or a pause (indicated by a comma).

Na i cev-a teli em Dxek i neni u ni-ái
1s PRED see-OBL house REL Jack PRED be.born ADV in-OBL.3.DEF.INAN
"I saw the house that Jack was born in (it*).

Na i cev-a teli em ni-ái (do) Dxek i neni
1s PRED see-OBL house REL in-OBL.3.DEF.INAN (thus) Jack PRED be.born
"I saw the house that, in (it*), Jack was born.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:34 am 
Avisaru
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Wait, is the ellipsis typed as one character on English keyboards? I always just write 3 dots, both in handwriting and on the computer.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:36 am 
Avisaru
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:25 am 
Sanno
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Buruya Nzaysa has a relative clause auxiliary rɔma-, which inflects for both core participants of a transitive subclause. It is usually placed right at the end of the head NP. (Note that ena 'see' is a so-called ergative verb, which requires reverse agreement on the auxiliary and inverted case marking on the core participants, so mlu 'house' appears in the nominative here.)

Nəña lo mlu rɔma Tsakɔ xa mvoñuna ena.

I saw the house that Jack built.

In order to facilitate parsing by not having the relative clause intervene between the arguments and the content verb of the matrix clause, the relativized noun can be topicalized:

Nzɔ mlu rɔma Tsakɔ mvoñuna, nəña nzɔ ena.

The house that Jack built, I saw it.


Relative clauses referring to a location are built in the same way. In the topicalized version, a pronominal preposition is used instead of a demonstrative pronoun to indicate the place of the relativized noun within the matrix clause:

Neya ada lu mlu rɔma Tsakɔ xa mvoñuna kə.

I went to the house that Jack built.

Nzo mlu rɔma Tsakɔ mvoñuna, neya ada kə.

The house that Jack built, I went there.


If the relativized noun plays an oblique role within the relative clause, it will generally be referenced by a demonstrative pronoun within the subclause, subordinated to the appropriate preposition. (In other words, Buruya Nzaysa uses a pronoun-retention strategy when relativizing oblique arguments.) Again, it is possible to topicalize the relativized noun.

Nəña lo mlu rɔma Tsakɔ o xa tsɛsera ena.

I saw the house where Jack was born.

Nzɔ mlu rɔma Tsakɔ o nzo tsɛsera, nəña nzɔ ena.

The house where Jack was born, I saw it.


---


Complement clauses are built with the subordinating conjunction ri () / rɛ ():

Seya rumɛ rɛ ɔdɔwa Tsakɔ tsə mlu mvoñu.

I know that Jack built that house.

Seya rumɛ rɛ so’ɔ(wa) rumɛ.

I know that you know (it).

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:08 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:32 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:47 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Last edited by Ser on Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:44 pm 
Sumerul
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:59 pm 
Sumerul
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A conversation that in the narrative is carried out via the medium of the internet and/or computers... What else would it be? :|


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:36 pm 
Sanci
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:54 pm 
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