Help your conlang fluency (2)

[Matrix]

Kuisamideri deioun?
By what measure? [Lit: under what god?]

[Nortaneous]

/ts dz f/, /ti/, /we/

[Matrix]

/ts dz f/, /ti/, /we/

Since when does "looks like" mean "absolutely 100% the same as"?

Anyways, Japanese totally has /ts/ and /f/, and it sometimes has [dz] in pronunciation, if not orthography.

[Nortaneous]

zham qaqonmx, sha khri jabdami njuba
since i said so and no it doesn't, not in native words anyway

[finlay]

"dzeoeau"

[Matrix]

no it doesn't, not in native words anyway

Hoj kuda girian kakoid? つ [tsu] ar ふ [ɸu] Japanar vogat da.
What are you on? Japanese totally has つ [tsu] and ふ [ɸu].

"dzeoeau"

La, vadithas /y/ van kos kemu ker "dzeoe" ra kanta vadwol.
Yeah, I might add an epenthetic /y/ somewhere in "dzeoe".

[Salmoneus]

Areki deiou-kue

Areki etsa; so anfuro. Areki sunun wento. Tosyo jeutoran fieikatsa: "Sunu moi dzanyetouda!" Jeutoui ton aredzan weukeda: "Yadzesou deioun Werunon." Ufo areki deioun Werunon sesore nu deioun yadzeto. "Dudi moi, fatera Werune!" Deiou Weruno diwe kanta dzuaata. "Kuida werasi?" "Sunun werami." "Toda etsu", weukeda deuko deiou Weruno. Nu areki fotani sunun dzedzone.

dɛr˯ lyka˯ <efurkanə˯> ta mi
That looks 'African' to me

mizhama nɔbha˯ na bhą
I don't know why

[Nannalu]

Areki deiou-kue

Areki etsa; so anfuro. Areki sunun wento. Tosyo jeutoran fieikatsa: "Sunu moi dzanyetouda!" Jeutoui ton aredzan weukeda: "Yadzesou deioun Werunon." Ufo areki deioun Werunon sesore nu deioun yadzeto. "Dudi moi, fatera Werune!" Deiou Weruno diwe kanta dzuaata. "Kuida werasi?" "Sunun werami." "Toda etsu", weukeda deuko deiou Weruno. Nu areki fotani sunun dzedzone.

dɛr˯ lyka˯ <efurkanə˯> ta mi
That looks 'African' to me

mizhama nɔbha˯ na bhą
I don't know why

Wi' <w> tx'e-<z>?
The <w>s and the <z>s?

[finlay]

Oreikikui deiō:

Oreiki echiide warōho echine. Sunō echiben. Juimanōhodo sekuichide: "Sun memedo janyūshi!" Juimanō oreikodo sekuichide: "Deiōhodo Waruno ōeshibyahe." Oreiki deioeibe Warunon juimechi deiōhodo aisei. "Medechibyahe, hatein Waruno!" Deiō Waruno jōyō juimechi. "Kuiho echiben?" "Sunou echiben." Deiō Waruno jōkechiso sekuichide: "Nu echi." Dawao oreiko sunun denechi.
[/b]

This looks more like romanized Japanese.

If you want a really Japanese look, you can use things like dz, f, ti, which are sometimes used by Japanese words (zu was often previously dzu, so you still get romanizations like adzuki beans, instead of azuki if it was coming from the modern pronunciation), but not to the degree that you did. Vowel sequences aren't all that common in Japanese, either. With both of those things quite common in your one, it lends an un-Japanese look.

(Changing ou to ō is just a point of imitating the "standard" look, btw)

Basically the point is that looking like Japanese is more than just having CV syllables.

That said, I'm probably being a bit hard on you, since it's not that far off and your intent is not to imitate Japanese exactly. But I think I agree that this looks more like an African language.

[clawgrip]

no it doesn't, not in native words anyway

Hoj kuda girian kakoid? つ [tsu] ar ふ [ɸu] Japanar vogat da.
What are you on? Japanese totally has つ [tsu] and ふ [ɸu].

Those are allophonic in native words. I hesitate to call [ts] an actual phoneme of Japanese. It is quite rare as a phoneme distinct from /t/, as it basically only occurs in foreign names. Anything other than <tsu> will not "look" Japanese. /ɸ/ on the other hand has become a phoneme within the last century (probably last 50 years or so I'd guess) due to a major influx of loanwords from English. Even so, /ɸ/ and /h/ are not distinguished in the environment _u, as /u/ causes lip compression that affects the preceding consonant, turning [h] into [ɸ].

[Chagen]

Also, to help, Japanese has nearly as hard of a boner for /t/ as Sanskrit does for /a/. And /wa/ is the only acceptable wV syllable.

A "Japanese" feel for me would come from:

-Strict (C)V phonology (Cy and VN stuff comes from Chinese loanwords)
-A small set of phonemes, only nasals, stops, 2-3 fricatives, 2 liquids, and one rhotic, and no affricates whatsoever
-/i/ (and maybe /e/) palatalize dental consonants

There's obviously more to it than that, but that strikes me as very "Japanese-y".

Aḥ, ecva Pazmatvo yena, ḥajji...
Oh, here's some Pazmat, I guess...

[Matrix]

Hm, alright. I'll take another look at the phonology.

Dunno if I'll use macrons though. I did consider it at first, but I instead chose to use the macron-less romanizations for the long vowels (aa ii ei ou uu) for ease of typing.

[finlay]

Another subtle point: /aa/ is very uncommon in Japanese, or rather it is common in borrowings but only occurs in a few native words (eg obaasan, okaasan). Again, just based on the romanization, if you have a lot of that, especially followed by another vowel like faao, it lends an un-Japanese look.

Part of the reason I used macrons is that the only place I regularly see romanized Japanese is in train station signs, which pretty consistently use the standard Hepburn romanization, with macrons. Other places sometimes use it, but just as often do things like ou for /o:/, or sy for sh, or the worst, jyou instead of jō or jou, or cyou for chou. (There is another romanization where it would be zyou and tyou for those two, but if you're using j and ch you shouldn't also be using a y...)

[Nortaneous]

Looks more like it'd be spoken in PNG or Vanuatu or someplace like that -- African languages are generally tonal and there's no tone marking, and languages in that area of the Pacific tend to have a lot of /f/.

(I wonder if there's a language with /f t q b d g/ -- k-backing is another areal feature, though I forget where exactly.)

[Bristel]

Faleti sammanobis tacuos nāteram galei.
/ɸaleti samːanobis takʷos naːteram galei/
The man carries the mother step-by-step to the sea.

Working on morphology of a proto-language.

[Solarius]

NGe nengfont thuDesertert ngaNGengkwe
/ŋɛ nɛŋfɔnʔ tʰu-tɛzɛɾtɛɾʔ ŋa-ŋɛŋkwɛ/
1p.SG make-PRS LOC-descendant GEN-english
"I'm creating a descendant of English."

NGet ngewod tuRyuyont botNGet ngapsit NGetsewt tuNGamoneka nganshyén
/ŋɛʔ ŋaspiʔ ŋɛʔsewʔ tʰu-ɾjujɔnʔ pɔʔ-ŋɛʔ ŋɛwɔt tʰu-ŋamɔnɛkʰa ŋanʃjen/
3p.INAN speak-PRS 3p.INAN.REFL LOC-New York City ABE-3p.INAN come-PRS LOC-american old
"Although it's spoken in New York City, it comes from General American."

[احمکي ارش-ھجن]

Ẕaẏ ṛ-ḏīram čolūn ʾatakī mūqad...
I taste the blood of your body...

[KathTheDragon]

NGet ngewod tuRyuyont botNGet ngapsit NGetsewt tuNGamoneka nganshyén
/ŋɛʔ ŋaspiʔ ŋɛʔsewʔ tʰu-ɾjujɔnʔ pɔʔ-ŋɛʔ ŋɛwɔt tʰu-ŋamɔnɛkʰa ŋanʃjen/
3p.INAN speak-PRS 3p.INAN.REFL LOC-New York City ABE-3p.INAN come-PRS LOC-american old
"Although it's spoken in New York City, it comes from General American."

(I think you have 'ngewod' and 'ngapsit NGetsewt' the wrong way round, judging by the transcription)

[Matrix]

Ano oenētso aramanōn orazē,
ano oenētso in tsānde.
Ano oenētso aramanōn byasē,
temoe in disēde.

Ano

ring.NOM

oenētso

one-same_as

aramanōn

everyone.ACC

orazē,

rule.INF

ano

ring.NOM

oenētso

one-same_as

in

3.AN

tsān

find.INF

-de.

-and

Ano

ring.NOM

oenētso

one-same_as

aramanōn

everyone.ACC

byasē,

bring.INF

temoe

darkness.LOC

in

3.AN

disē

capture.INF

-de.

-and

[Dē Graut Bʉr]

A úr oss reklē all,
a úr oss finntē zess.
A úr oss hirrvúrē all
enn oss ossdorrkē zess.

[kusuri]

Hárahoninga shívosù vúdo hágosa,
hí shívo vúdo smóli.
Hí shívo vúdo háugi,
kyonókì vúdo lándanama.


Getting carried away here.

[Imralu]

Zoha mo xu tia?
mean be.what NOM.3s.DEF.INAN.REL be.that.2
What does that mean?

[ęzo]

Zoha mo xu tia?

Memik šam
Tetrim ut sâ kmâposok šu sfêhînêkêk,, —
tetrim ut sâ kmairsejek šu hînêkêk,, —
tetrim ut sâ kmairfenek šu sfêhînêkêk,
kmâćâfok ńi fomurok, šu hînêkêk.

OBV-represent C.quote
SGV-ring one used_for INF-rule-DAT to each-PL.PROX*-DAT
SGV-ring one used_for INF-CAU-be_visible-DAT to PL.PROX-DAT
SGV-ring one used_for INF-CAU-be_near-DAT to each-PL.PROX-DAT
INF-tie-DAT in NMLZ-be_dark-DAT to PL.PROX-DAT

‘That means
“One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.”’



*Proximate because in the context of the rest of the ring-verse they would already be salient

[Imralu]

Aa, haha, kkas oila na.
Oh, haha, I didn't read.

[jal]

Q&D Sajiwan translation of the ring poem:

Wan ring fo bos on olda dem
Wan ring fo fayn dem
Wan ring fo kom pik olda dem
an insay dahk im bayn dem



JAL