Help your fluency in a nifty way

Discussion of natural languages, or language in general.
User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Dat begrijp ik. Dus* hoe zou jij op z'n** Nederlands "I'm sad" zeggen?
*"Dus" seems to refer to the understanding. It's has less "global scope" than English "so". I'd say "maar" in this case, even though it doesn't cover "so" entirely, and has a slightly different feeling to it.
**Colloquial. Alternatively, "in het Nederlands".

Gute Frage. Es hängt ab von pragmatische Betrachtungen.
Good question. It depends on pragmatic considerations.

"Ik ben verdrietig"
"Ik voel me klote" (very colloquial)
"Ik voel me teneergeslagen" (rather formal)
"Ik kan wel janken" (colloquial)
"Ik baal hier stevig van"
etc.
Może być tylko jeden Salmoneus!
Das habe ich auf Polnisch verstehen! :)
I understood that in Polish! :)


JAL

hwhatting
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2315
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Location: Bonn, Germany

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Good question. It depends on pragmatic considerations.
Dank je wel!
jal wrote:Das habe ich auf Polnisch verstanden! :)
I understood that in Polish! :)
Widzisz, język polski nie jest trudny.
Tu vois, le polonais n'est pas difficile.
Zie je, het Pools is niet zwaar.

You see, Polish isn't hard. ;-)

User avatar
Znex
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:45 am
Location: Australia

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Znex »

Poljaniska mis ist hardja frastandan, auk ik nait Poljaniska.
Polish is hard for me to understand, but I don't know Polish anyway.
Last edited by Znex on Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Native: English || Pretty decent: Ancient Greek || Alright: Ancient Hebrew || Eh: Welsh || Basic: Mandarin Chinese || Very basic: French, Latin, Nisuese, Apsish
Conlangs: Nisuese, Apsish, Kaptaran, Pseudo-Ligurian

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Zie je, het Pools is niet moeilijk*.
*"zwaar" kan only refer to physically demanding work ("zwaar werk"), or to life ("een zwaar leven"), if not litteraly meaning "heavy".

Na nieszczęście Polski jest bardzo trudny :(
Unfortunately Polish is very difficult :(
Znex wrote:Poljanisk mis ist hardjata frastandan, auk ik nait Poljanisk.
Was ist das für eine Sprache?
What's that language?


JAL

User avatar
Znex
Lebom
Lebom
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:45 am
Location: Australia

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Znex »

Sō ist Guþiska. Ik laisja mis þō faur meina waurkiþatuggō.
That's Gothic. I've been learning it for my conlang.
Native: English || Pretty decent: Ancient Greek || Alright: Ancient Hebrew || Eh: Welsh || Basic: Mandarin Chinese || Very basic: French, Latin, Nisuese, Apsish
Conlangs: Nisuese, Apsish, Kaptaran, Pseudo-Ligurian

User avatar
linguoboy
Sanno
Sanno
Posts: 3681
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 9:00 am
Location: Rogers Park/Evanston

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by linguoboy »

Ich hab Polnisch nicht zu schwer gefunden. Ich hab's einmal gelernt und danach alles vergessen.
Ches i moni'n anodd dysgu Pwyleg. Un tro ddysges i hi a chwedyn anghofies i hi i gyd.
I didn't find Polish that hard. I learned it once and then forgot it all.

User avatar
Viktor77
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Memphis, Tennessee

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

Quel bel état, l'Arkansas! On est allés à Little Rock où on a visité le Capitole (jusqu'à présent mon 9ème). On a aussi visité le Bill Clinton Presidential Library qui, malgré notre deuil, était une bonne expérience (on a rencontré un joli vieux couple de Tennessee qui on penserait conservateur mais qui sont en fait aussi en deuil, ce que j'adore parce qu'on associe souvent certains états comme le Tennessee ainsi que certains âges comme les vieux au seul parti dominant là-bas, ici les Républicains, ce qui n'est en fait pas la vérité). La bibliothèque nous montre à quel point les Clintons sont un symbole de la politique américaine, malgré la perte d'Hillary.

On a aussi fait un petit tour à travers les Ouachitas et les Ozarks, ce qui étaient absolument incroyables. C'est vraiment plouc là-haut mais à la fois très beau. On a traversé les petites routes et dans les vrais troux du cul. On a fait Hot Springs et Eureka Springs et un peu d'Ozarks du Missouri (notamment près de Table Rock Lake et jusqu'à Springfield, ce qui est aussi une très belle région). En gros, on a conduit pendant 15 heures hier et 8 heures avant-hier. Mais ça vallait le coup. :)


I won't write this in Dutch as to spare Jal. :P

Arkansas is quite a beautiful state! We went to Little Rock where we visited the Capitol (my 9th so far). We also visited the Bill Clinton Presidential Library which, despite our mourning, was a good experience (we also met a nice old couple from Tennessee who one would think would be conservative but in fact were also in mourning, which I love because we often associate certain states like Tennessee along with certain ages like the elderly with the dominant party there, here the Republicans, which is in fact not the reality of the situation). The library shows how much the Clintons are a symbol of American politics, despite Hillary's loss.

We also did a tour through the Ouachitas and the Ozarks, which were absolutely incredible! It's really hillbilly up there but at the same time very beautiful. We traveled down backroads and through the real boonies. We did Hot Springs and Eureka Springs and a bit of the Missouri Ozaks (especially near Table Rock Lake and up until Springfield, which is also a very beautiful region). In total we drove 15 hours yesterday and 8 hours the day before! But it was worth it.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

Viktor77 wrote:I won't write this in Dutch as to spare Jal. :P
Danke! :) Aber selbstverständlich kannst du auch nur ein Satz übersetzen.
Thanks! :) But of course you can also just translate a single sentence.


JAL

hwhatting
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2315
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Location: Bonn, Germany

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Danke! :) Aber selbstverständlich kannst du auch nur einen einzelnen Satz übersetzen.
Thanks! :) But of course you can also just translate a single sentence.
Muszę pisać coś tutaj, zeby Jal miał trochę pracy.
Ik moet hier iets schrijven, opdat Jal een beetje werk heeft.
Je dois écriver quelque chose ici, afin que Jal ait quelque travail.

I must write something here so Jal will have some work. ;-)

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Ik moet hier iets schrijven, opdat* Jal een beetje werk heeft.
*Pretty formal/stilted. I'd use "zodat".

Danke, wie immer! :)
Thanks, like always! :)


JAL

User avatar
Viktor77
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Memphis, Tennessee

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

hwhatting wrote:
jal wrote:Danke! :) Aber selbstverständlich kannst du auch nur einen einzelnen Satz übersetzen.
Thanks! :) But of course you can also just translate a single sentence.
Muszę pisać coś tutaj, zeby Jal miał trochę pracy.
Ik moet hier iets schrijven, opdat Jal een beetje werk heeft.
Je dois écrire quelque chose ici, afin que Jal ait quelque* travail.

I must write something here so Jal will have some work. ;-)
*Ou tout simplement "du travail" ou "un peu de travail."

Ik heb nodig van motivatie. Ik moet twee opstel schrijven maar het wordt moelijk omdat ik geen meer motivatie heb.


I need motivation. I must write two papers but it's becoming difficult because I have no motivation left.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

User avatar
din
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:02 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by din »

Viktor77 wrote:
Ik heb nodig van motivatie. Ik moet twee opstel schrijven maar het wordt moelijk omdat ik geen meer motivatie heb.
Two rules that are always true:

1) SUBJ + [hebben] + (...) + nodig. Like, Ik heb (een nieuwe groene pen met inkt die niet uitloopt) nodig. Everything goes in between hebben and nodig.

2) SUBJ + [hebben] + geen + (...) + meer. Like, Ik heb geen (vastkokende aardappelen van de boer uit het naburige dorp) meer. Everything goes in between geen and meer.

Of course, the subject and hebben can invert, when inversion is called for, and the verb can also still move to the end of the sentence, in the same situations where that is usually required:

- Heb je hebt een nieuwe fiets nodig?
- Ik ga morgen naar de bank, omdat ik heb een nieuwe brandverzekering nodig heb.

- Ik ben bij de drogist geweest, maar helaas ze hadden ze geen paracetamol met cafeïne meer
- Je moet op de terugweg even langs de winkel, omdat we hebben geen tandpasta meer hebben.

Now you should be able to correct your own mistakes :). Apart from 'opstellen', which I didn't cover above, because that needs to be plural.
— o noth sidiritt Tormiott

Yng
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: Llundain

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Yng »

linguoboy wrote:Ich hab Polnisch nicht zu schwer gefunden. Ich hab's einmal gelernt und danach alles vergessen.
Ches i moni'n anodd i ddysgu Pwyleg. Un tro ddysges i hi a chwedyn anghofies i hi i gyd.
I didn't find Polish that hard. I learned it once and then forgot it all.
works like english
كان يا ما كان / يا صمت العشية / قمري هاجر في الصبح بعيدا / في العيون العسلية

tà yi póbo tsùtsùr ciivà dè!

short texts in Cuhbi

Risha Cuhbi grammar

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

din wrote:Two rules that are always true:
Except when they're not. I find "Ik heb een nieuwe pen nodig, met inkt die niet uitloopt" or "Ik heb een pen nodig om mee te schrijven" perfectly acceptable (and much better than the equivalents "Ik heb een nieuwe pen met inkt die niet uitloopt nodig" and "Ik heb een pen om mee te schrijven nodig", the latter of which I'd even consider dubious).
Viktor77 wrote:Ik heb van motivatie nodig.
Spot the gallicism :). Like English (and German), there's no partitive like French "de".
Ik moet twee opstellen* schrijven, maar het** wordt moelijk omdat ik geen motivatie meer heb.
*plural!
**I'd use "dat", as it explicitly refers to the writing.

Ich habe heute auch keine Motivation. Ich bin müde, and habe nicht viel zu tun.
Today I also don't have any motivation. I'm tired, and haven't got much to do.


JAL

hwhatting
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2315
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Location: Bonn, Germany

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Ich habe heute auch keine Motivation. Ich bin müde, und habe nicht viel zu tun.
Today I also don't have any motivation. I'm tired, and haven't got much to do.
To jest dobra chwila dla drzemki.
C'est un bon moment pour un roupillon.
Dat is een goede moment voor een dutje.

That's a good time for a nap.

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Dat is een goede moment voor een dutje.
Genau. Aber ich denke, dass meine Kollegen das vielleicht ein Bisschen merkwürdig finden.
Exactly. But I think that my collegues would perhaps think it a little odd.


JAL

hwhatting
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2315
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Location: Bonn, Germany

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Genau. Aber ich denke, dass meine Kollegen das vielleicht ein Bisschen merkwürdig finden würden.
Exactly. But I think that my collegues would perhaps think it a little odd.
Hebben ze nooit iets van power napping gehoord?
Have they never heard anything about power napping?

User avatar
din
Avisaru
Avisaru
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:02 pm
Location: Brussels

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by din »

jal wrote:
din wrote:Two rules that are always true:
Except when they're not. I find "Ik heb een nieuwe pen nodig, met inkt die niet uitloopt" or "Ik heb een pen nodig om mee te schrijven" perfectly acceptable (and much better than the equivalents "Ik heb een nieuwe pen met inkt die niet uitloopt nodig" and "Ik heb een pen om mee te schrijven nodig", the latter of which I'd even consider dubious).

JAL
That does not make what I said untrue, though, right? I didn't say they were the only options, just that they're always correct.

Though yes, subordinate clauses should be put after the entire construction, but that's generally the case in Dutch
— o noth sidiritt Tormiott

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Hebben ze nooit iets van power napping gehoord?
"(nooit) gehoord hebben van X" is a pretty set combination, adding "iets" sounds very unidiomatic.

Wahrscheinlich, aber wovon man gehört hat, darf man nur manchmal machen :)
Probably, but the things one has heard of one can do only sometimes :).


JAL

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

din wrote:That does not make what I said untrue, though, right? I didn't say they were the only options, just that they're always correct.
Entschuldigung, denn hatte ich dich mißverstanden.
Apologies, in that case I didn't understand you correctly.


JAL

hwhatting
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2315
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Location: Bonn, Germany

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

jal wrote:Wahrscheinlich, aber das, wovon man gehört hat, darf man nur manchmal machen :)
Probably, but the things one has heard of one can do only sometimes :).
Without das it's not wrong, but it sounds awkward.
jal wrote:Entschuldigung, dann hatte ich dich mißverstanden.
Apologies, in that case I didn't understand you correctly.
Dzisiaj jest zimne, ale słońce świeci.
Aujourd'hui il fait froid, mais le soleil brille.
Vandaag is het koud, maar de zon schijnt.
Today it's cold, but the sun is shining.

User avatar
jal
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2633
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:03 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by jal »

hwhatting wrote:Today it's cold, but the sun is shining.
Ici aussi. Trop froid. J'aime le chaud.
Here too. Too cold. I like warmth.


JAL

Generally_Illiterate
Niš
Niš
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:39 pm

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Generally_Illiterate »

Wieviel Menschen haben hier Linguistik studiert? Ich möchte es nächstes Jahr studieren, und würde gern Sprachwissenschaftler werden, aber ich weiß nicht, ob er noch einen echten Beruf ist.
How many people studied linguistics here? I want to study it next year and would like to be a linguist, but I don't know if that's still a real (read: viable) occupation.

User avatar
Viktor77
Sumerul
Sumerul
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:27 pm
Location: Memphis, Tennessee

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by Viktor77 »

jal wrote:Ici aussi. Trop froid. J'aime le chaud.*
Here too. Too cold. I like warmth.

*Plutôt "J'aime la chaleur."

Et un grand merci à Jal et à Niels pour le néerlandais.


Generally_Illiterate wrote:Wieviel Menschen haben hier Linguistik studiert? Ich möchte es nächstes Jahr studieren, und würde gern Sprachwissenschaftler werden, aber ich weiß nicht, ob er noch einen echten Beruf ist.
How many people studied linguistics here? I want to study it next year and would like to be a linguist, but I don't know if that's still a real (read: viable) occupation.
Ich studiere Französiche Sprachwissenschaft als Grad Student. Mein Problem bei Sprachwissenschaft ist, dass du einfach nur nichts konkret für einen Beruf ohne ein Doktorat bekommen kannst...zumindest...und eigentlicht ist das noch schwer mit einem Doktorat. Sprachwissenschaft ist besser als Literatur oder Philosophie, etc. aber du muss ein Doktorat haben. Ich sitze im gleichen Boot. Im sommer werde ich einen Masters in Französiche Sprachwissenschaft haben und als ich nicht promoviere, dann werde ich nur für Lehrtätigkeiten die Qualifikation haben (und auch einige Industriearbeiten).

Entschuldigung, ich bin Schwarzmaler um geisteswissenschaftlich.


I study French linguistics as a Grad student. My problem with linguistics is that you simply won't get anything concrete for a job without a doctorate...at least...and in fact it's still difficult with a doctorate. Linguistics is better than literature or philosophy, etc. but you must have a doctorate. I'm in the same boat. In the summer I will have a Masters in French linguistics and if I don't go for a doctorate, I'll only be qualified for teaching positions (and some industry jobs).

Sorry, I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Liberal Arts.
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

hwhatting
Smeric
Smeric
Posts: 2315
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2002 2:49 am
Location: Bonn, Germany

Re: Help your fluency in a nifty way

Post by hwhatting »

Viktor77 wrote:Ich studiere Französiche Sprachwissenschaft als Grad Student im Aufbaustudium. Mein Problem mit Sprachwissenschaft ist, dass du einfach keine konkrete Stelle ohne einen Doktortitel bekommen kannst...mindestens...und eigentlicht ist es immer noch schwer mit einem Doktortitel. Sprachwissenschaft ist besser als Literatur oder Philosophie, etc. aber du musst einen Doktortitel haben. Ich sitze im gleichen Boot. Im Sommer werde ich einen Masters in Französischer Sprachwissenschaft haben und wenn ich nicht promoviere, dann werde ich nur für Lehrtätigkeiten die Qualifikation für Lehrtätigkeiten haben (und auch für einige Jobs in der Wirtschaft*1)).

Entschuldigung, ich bin Schwarzmaler, wenn es um Geisteswissenschaften geht.


I study French linguistics as a Grad student. My problem with linguistics is that you simply won't get anything concrete for a job without a doctorate...at least...and in fact it's still difficult with a doctorate. Linguistics is better than literature or philosophy, etc. but you must have a doctorate. I'm in the same boat. In the summer I will have a Masters in French linguistics and if I don't go for a doctorate, I'll only be qualified for teaching positions (and some industry jobs).

Sorry, I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Liberal Arts.
*1) German Industrie without a qualifier (like e.g. Unterhaltungsindustrie) normally implies smokestack industries. As you seem to talk about a commercial job as opposed to an academic job, the fitting German Expression would be die Wirtschaft (literally "the economy", but also frequently used like English "business").
Generally_Illiterate wrote:Wieviel Menschen haben hier Linguistik studiert? Ich möchte es nächstes Jahr studieren, und würde gern Sprachwissenschaftler werden, aber ich weiß nicht, ob es noch einen echter Beruf ist.
How many people studied linguistics here? I want to study it next year and would like to be a linguist, but I don't know if that's still a real (read: viable) occupation.
Studiowałem językoznawstwo (25 lat temu), ale nie pracuję w tym dziedzinie.
J'ai fait des études de linguistique (il y a 25 ans), mais je ne travaille pas dans ce domaine.
Ik heb taalkunde gestudeerd (25 jaren geleden), maar ik werk niet op dat domein.

I studied linguistics (25 years ago), but I don't work in that field.
Last edited by hwhatting on Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply