More English vowels
More English vowels
Why is the <a> of most of the *ash words /æ/, but the <a> of wash is /a/?
(Avatar is an electric motor consisting of a bit of wire, a couple of paper clips,
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two neodymium magnets, and a pair of AA batteries. A very cute demo of
minimal technology, and likewise completely useless for any practical purpose.)
Re: More English vowels
I thought it was because it's followed by /r/.
Re: More English vowels
While some people have /r/ in *warsh, most (my observation) don't. I think, if <a> is /a/ because of the /w/, then I would guess that the /r/ is because of the /a/. But English dialectologists may have facts better than my impressions.
(Avatar is an electric motor consisting of a bit of wire, a couple of paper clips,
two neodymium magnets, and a pair of AA batteries. A very cute demo of
minimal technology, and likewise completely useless for any practical purpose.)
two neodymium magnets, and a pair of AA batteries. A very cute demo of
minimal technology, and likewise completely useless for any practical purpose.)
Re: More English vowels
I assumed linguoboy was joking.
Re: More English vowels
I wondered if he might have been joking, since his posts generally (or better) show a lot of knowledge. But only he knows, and others might be mislead.
(Avatar is an electric motor consisting of a bit of wire, a couple of paper clips,
two neodymium magnets, and a pair of AA batteries. A very cute demo of
minimal technology, and likewise completely useless for any practical purpose.)
two neodymium magnets, and a pair of AA batteries. A very cute demo of
minimal technology, and likewise completely useless for any practical purpose.)
Re: More English vowels
I doubt that, especially considering that an awful lot of the people on this forum are native speakers of English themselves and even the non-native ones seem to be aware that certain pronunciations are more common in English than certain others.
Re: More English vowels
I laughed at it, but he and I are both from St. Louis.
Re: More English vowels
...and hence easily amused.Axiem wrote:I laughed at it, but he and I are both from St. Louis.
Re: More English vowels
I'm not sure if I should agree with that or be offended by it...linguoboy wrote:...and hence easily amused.Axiem wrote:I laughed at it, but he and I are both from St. Louis.
Re: More English vowels
"wash" historically had the same vowel as in "crash" and "smash". Then vowel rounding occurred causing the TRAP vowel to become rounded after "w" hence the present pronunciations of "wander", "wasp", "wash", "want", "wand", "watch" etc. The rounding didn't occur before velar consonants as in "wagon", "wax" and "whack" and didn't occur in "swam" the irregular past tense of "swim".
Re: More English vowels
"swim"'s past tense would make it an regular class 3 strong verb in English. (that was kind of /s-worthy as the strong verb paradigm has lost its cohesion in English)Fooge wrote:"wash" historically had the same vowel as in "crash" and "smash". Then vowel rounding occurred causing the TRAP vowel to become rounded after "w" hence the present pronunciations of "wander", "wasp", "wash", "want", "wand", "watch" etc. The rounding didn't occur before velar consonants as in "wagon", "wax" and "whack" and didn't occur in "swam" the irregular past tense of "swim".
- Nortaneous
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Re: More English vowels
no it hasn't -- there are strong verb ablaut patterns regular enough to be extended by analogy. there are even patterns that are *entirely* analogical in origin, e.g. 'dive', 'sneak', 'sit'
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.
Re: More English vowels
Agree. I have a phonemic distinction between a long TRAP vowel (the BAD vowel) and a short TRAP vowel (the LAD vowel). Past tense forms formed by ablauting to a always have the LAD vowel even if it would never appear there in other words. Occasionally I accidentally irregularise verbs spontaneously in speech. Once I accidentally said dag as the simple past of dig. What was really interesting is that I said it with the LAD vowel, not like the noun dag which has the BAD vowel. In fact, I can't think of any other word with the LAD vowel before a coda /g/. That sequence is apparently reserved only for past ablaut und just happens not to occur in an real verbs I've ever heard anyone say. (Unless there's a common irregular verb with -ag that I'm overlooking.)Nortaneous wrote:no it hasn't -- there are strong verb ablaut patterns regular enough to be extended by analogy. there are even patterns that are *entirely* analogical in origin, e.g. 'dive', 'sneak', 'sit'
Anyway, my point is that spontaneously, unconsciously irregularising verbs (which I think most English speakers do at times) shows that these patterns do exist in a way that can still be productive and take off (like dove and snuck), and my dialect's vowel split shows quite well that it's somehow stored in my head quite specifically as "this vowel can be used to make things past".
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific
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