zompist bboard

I've heard some say that the sound at the beginning and end of the word "hang" might be allophones. I don't think that's the case. Because people don't really perceive them as being the same sound.

The only "evidence" for h and ŋ being the same phoneme is their complementary distribution. But obviously they aren't the same phoneme, so usually people insist on "phonetic similarity". This probably isn't the right approach either, so I agree with your idea, that native speaker intuition is a better judge of which phones belong together.

People usually don't perceive the latter to be a sound at all due to an extremely orthography-centric approach to consonants in English language education. It is usually thought of as n + g. I've actually thought of what you're saying before. I think that it isn't thought of as an allophonic pair by linguists because phones don't have any relationship - [h] can never be modified by its surroundings into becoming [ŋ] or vice versa.

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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!

Yeah. I don't think any linguists seriously consider the sounds as being allophones. They use them as an example of why phonemes can't be defined only by complementary distribution.

The distribution isn't even totally complementary:
"There's a singer ahead."

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"I'm sorry, when you have all As in every class in every semester, it's not easy to treat the idea that your views are fundamentally incoherent as a serious proposition."

It still is, as the syllabification is different: sɪŋ.ər against ə.hɛd

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Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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In Budapest:
- Hey mate, are you hung-a-ry?

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Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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In Budapest:
- Hey mate, are you hung-a-ry?

There's also the fact that the sounds [h] and [N] are represented differently orthographically. Allophones of a single phoneme tend to be represented the same way. The unaspirated p in "spin" and the aspirated p in "pin" are both represented with "p".

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Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

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Blog:

But the river tripped on her by and by, lapping
as though her heart was brook: Why, why, why! Weh, O weh
I'se so silly to be flowing but I no canna stay!

The goat/goal split may also play a part: some people have the goal allophone before intervocalic /l/, as in holy, but not in slowly because of a morpheme boundary.

I don't think anyone ever suggested seriously that [h] and [ŋ] are allophones; it seems to me a reductio ad absurdum to show that complementary distribution is a necessary but not sufficient condition.

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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!

I have heard of rhinoglottophilia before, but not in English.

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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!

One thing to consider is that in almost all these cases of supposed phonemic syllabification (e.g. singing versus ahead, rawhide versus wrong-eyed, peace-eyed versus pea-side, tine-eat versus tie-neat, wholly versus holy) what we really have are phonemic morpheme boundaries or phonemic stress (e.g. Wis-consin versus Wi-sconsin). Therefore I am highly skeptical of the existence of phonemic syllabification, because practically always when it is proposed there is a better explanation.

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Dibotahamdn duthma jallni agaynni ra hgitn lakrhmi.
Amuhawr jalla vowa vta hlakrhi hdm duthmi xaja.
Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro. Irdro.

I agree that phonemic syllabification does not exist in most English varieties. That does not mean it does not exist in other languages.

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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!