Ah, y grym cywilyddio!Dewrad wrote::sighs: With this thread returning to haunt me, I suppose I should write a second lesson. Watch this space.
Welsh lessons.
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Might as well give this a go given Dewrad put his time and effort into it. My Welsh vocbulary sucks I have to use a dictionary for 50% of what I write in Welsh anyways .
1) Beth ydy Llydaw? Mae Llydaw'n gwlad Geltaidd neu Lladaw yw gwlad Geltaidd.
2) Beth ydy Yann? Mae Yann yn Llydawiad neu Yann yw Llydawiad.
3) Beth ydy ei famiaith? Mae ei famiaith yn Llydaweg neu ei famiaith yw Llydaweg
4) Pryd (when) mae o'n siarad Llydaweg (note that here "mae" is used, not "ydy") Mae fe'n siarad Llydaweg gyda ei gyfeillion.
5) Beth mae Yann yn dysgu? Mae Yann yn dysgu Cymraeg.
6) Beth mae Yann yn ysgrifennu? Mae Yann yn ysgrifennu llythr.
7) Pwy ydy ei ohebydd? Mae Ioan yn ei ohebydd neu Ioan yw ei ohebydd.
Exercise 1
Translate the following into Welsh, making use of the vocabulary given below and that you've already learnt:
1) a happy friend - Cyfaill hapus
2) a stupid man - dyn twp
3) a tall Welshman - Cymro tal
4) a small Breton - Llydawiad bychan neu Lydawiad bach
5) an ugly boy - Mab hagr (Mae fe'n swnio fel My bugger )
6) a fat horse - Ceffyl tew
Exercise 2
Translate the following into Welsh, making use of the vocabulary given below and before. All the nouns are feminine. Now, what do you do with adjectives after feminine nouns?
1) a large part - rhan fawr
2) a loving mother - Mam gariadus
3) a pretty girl - Geneth deg (Mwy Cymraeg na phert)
4) a small pub - Tafarn fychan neu Dafarn fach
5) a fat cow - Buwch dew
6) a wooly sheep - Dafad wlanog (Wyt ti'n caru defaid?
1) Beth ydy Llydaw? Mae Llydaw'n gwlad Geltaidd neu Lladaw yw gwlad Geltaidd.
2) Beth ydy Yann? Mae Yann yn Llydawiad neu Yann yw Llydawiad.
3) Beth ydy ei famiaith? Mae ei famiaith yn Llydaweg neu ei famiaith yw Llydaweg
4) Pryd (when) mae o'n siarad Llydaweg (note that here "mae" is used, not "ydy") Mae fe'n siarad Llydaweg gyda ei gyfeillion.
5) Beth mae Yann yn dysgu? Mae Yann yn dysgu Cymraeg.
6) Beth mae Yann yn ysgrifennu? Mae Yann yn ysgrifennu llythr.
7) Pwy ydy ei ohebydd? Mae Ioan yn ei ohebydd neu Ioan yw ei ohebydd.
LOL that made me laughDewrad wrote:Doesn't exist in Welsh. There isn't one. Forget about it, you never needed it anyway. I mean, look at the Russians.
Exercise 1
Translate the following into Welsh, making use of the vocabulary given below and that you've already learnt:
1) a happy friend - Cyfaill hapus
2) a stupid man - dyn twp
3) a tall Welshman - Cymro tal
4) a small Breton - Llydawiad bychan neu Lydawiad bach
5) an ugly boy - Mab hagr (Mae fe'n swnio fel My bugger )
6) a fat horse - Ceffyl tew
Exercise 2
Translate the following into Welsh, making use of the vocabulary given below and before. All the nouns are feminine. Now, what do you do with adjectives after feminine nouns?
1) a large part - rhan fawr
2) a loving mother - Mam gariadus
3) a pretty girl - Geneth deg (Mwy Cymraeg na phert)
4) a small pub - Tafarn fychan neu Dafarn fach
5) a fat cow - Buwch dew
6) a wooly sheep - Dafad wlanog (Wyt ti'n caru defaid?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
From the first lesson, please correct:
Wales is a peninsula in the west of Britain. Wales is a celtic country. Ioan is a Welshman. He lives in Wales. He speaks English. He speaks Welsh too. What is Ioan's native language? English is Ioan's native language.How is Ioan learning welsh? Ioan is a member of the Welsh Language Society. He goes to a lesson to learn Welsh. Why is he learning Welsh? Because he is a Welshman!
1)Ydy o'n darllen?
2)Mae o'n cysgu.
3)Mae Ioan yn bwyta.
4)Ydy Rhodri'n chwrnu.
5)Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6)Mae Eleri'n gyrru.
7)Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8)Ydy Pharazon godro?
9)Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.
Wales is a peninsula in the west of Britain. Wales is a celtic country. Ioan is a Welshman. He lives in Wales. He speaks English. He speaks Welsh too. What is Ioan's native language? English is Ioan's native language.How is Ioan learning welsh? Ioan is a member of the Welsh Language Society. He goes to a lesson to learn Welsh. Why is he learning Welsh? Because he is a Welshman!
1)Ydy o'n darllen?
2)Mae o'n cysgu.
3)Mae Ioan yn bwyta.
4)Ydy Rhodri'n chwrnu.
5)Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6)Mae Eleri'n gyrru.
7)Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8)Ydy Pharazon godro?
9)Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.
"An it harm none, do what thou wilt."
As I told TzirTi, don't forget the linking yn. AFAIK, the only time it gets left out is a focused sentence with the predicate fronted, e.g.:skurai wrote:From the first lesson, please correct:
7)Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8)Ydy Pharazon godro?
Gwrando mae Dewrad. "Dewrad is listening."
Teg mae linguoboy. "Linguoboy is cute."
(Beth ti'n deud amdani, Dewrad?)
Text Questions:
1) Rhan y chweongl Ffrainc ydy hi.
2) Yann ydy Llydawiad.
3) Y Llydaweg ydy ei famiaith o.
4) Er hynny dydy o ddim yn siarad Llydaweg ac eithrio gan ei gyfeillion.
5) Mae Yann yn dysgu Cymraeg trwy llythr.
6) Mae o'n ysgrifennu llythr at Ioan yng Nghymru.
7) Ioan ydy ei ohebydd, ac ei gyfaill.
Exercise 1:
1) cyfaill hapus
2) dyn twp
3) Cymro tal
4) Llydawiad brychan
5) mab hagr
6) ceffyl tew
Exercise 2:
1) rhan fawr
2) mam gariadus
3) geneth deg
4) tafarn frychan
5) buwch dew
6) dafad wlanog
1) Rhan y chweongl Ffrainc ydy hi.
2) Yann ydy Llydawiad.
3) Y Llydaweg ydy ei famiaith o.
4) Er hynny dydy o ddim yn siarad Llydaweg ac eithrio gan ei gyfeillion.
5) Mae Yann yn dysgu Cymraeg trwy llythr.
6) Mae o'n ysgrifennu llythr at Ioan yng Nghymru.
7) Ioan ydy ei ohebydd, ac ei gyfaill.
Exercise 1:
1) cyfaill hapus
2) dyn twp
3) Cymro tal
4) Llydawiad brychan
5) mab hagr
6) ceffyl tew
Exercise 2:
1) rhan fawr
2) mam gariadus
3) geneth deg
4) tafarn frychan
5) buwch dew
6) dafad wlanog
agus tha mo chluasan eòlach air a’ mhac-talla fhathast / às dèidh dhomh dùsgadh
(mona nicleòid wagner, “fo shneachd”)
(mona nicleòid wagner, “fo shneachd”)
I'd say teg ydy linguoboy, rather than using mae. Both are grammatical, however.linguoboy wrote:As I told TzirTi, don't forget the linking yn. AFAIK, the only time it gets left out is a focused sentence with the predicate fronted, e.g.:skurai wrote:From the first lesson, please correct:
7)Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8)Ydy Pharazon godro?
Gwrando mae Dewrad. "Dewrad is listening."
Teg mae linguoboy. "Linguoboy is cute."
(Beth ti'n deud amdani, Dewrad?)
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
.linguoboy wrote:Is that because teg is a predicate adjective? I assume with other fronted elements (e.g. yfory, yn yr ardd, dim byth, ac ati) you would use mae, yn byddet?Dewrad wrote:I'd say teg ydy linguoboy, rather than using mae. Both are grammatical, however.
Exactly so- for example "yn yr ardd mae ('na) y ci"- the dog is in the garden but "aaw, ciwt ydy'r ci" aaw, the dog's cute.
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
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skurai wrote:From the first lesson, please correct:
Wales is a peninsula in the west of Britain. Wales is a celtic country. Ioan is a Welshman. He lives in Wales. He speaks English. He speaks Welsh too. What is Ioan's native language? English is Ioan's native language.How is Ioan learning welsh? Ioan is a member of the Welsh Language Society. He goes to a lesson to learn Welsh. Why is he learning Welsh? Because he is a Welshman!
1)Ydy o'n darllen?
2)Mae o'n cysgu.
3)Mae Ioan yn bwyta.
4)Ydy Rhodri'n chwrnu.
5)Mae Deiniol yn addysgu.
6)Mae Eleri'n gyrru.
7)Ydy Angharad gwrando?
8)Ydy Pharazon godro?
9)Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu.
1)Ydy o'n darllen? Correct
2)Mae o'n cysgu. Correct
3)Mae Ioan yn bwyta. Correct
4)Ydy Rhodri'n chwrnu. Correct if it had a ?
5)Mae Deiniol yn addysgu. Correct
6)Mae Eleri'n gyrru. Correct
7)Ydy Angharad gwrando? Incorrect - Ydy Angharad yn gwrando?
8)Ydy Pharazon godro? Incorrect - Ydy Pharazon yn godro?
9)Mae Iorwerth yn malu cachu. Correct
7/9 not bad
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
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I knew nothing about those type of sentences .Dewrad wrote:.linguoboy wrote:Is that because teg is a predicate adjective? I assume with other fronted elements (e.g. yfory, yn yr ardd, dim byth, ac ati) you would use mae, yn byddet?Dewrad wrote:I'd say teg ydy linguoboy, rather than using mae. Both are grammatical, however.
Exactly so- for example "yn yr ardd mae ('na) y ci"- the dog is in the garden but "aaw, ciwt ydy'r ci" aaw, the dog's cute.
Anyways Dewrad could you explain how to use achos? Do you use an emphatic clause after it?
Dw i'n hapus achos fi sy'n mynd i Brifysgol eleni.
Is the above sentence grammatically correct?
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
Just thought I would share:
dw i
rwyt ti
mae e / mae o
mae hi
dyn ni
dych chi
maen nhw
and... here's a dictionary
Dw i'n serchu Cymraeg!
~Skurai
dw i
rwyt ti
mae e / mae o
mae hi
dyn ni
dych chi
maen nhw
and... here's a dictionary
Dw i'n serchu Cymraeg!
~Skurai
"An it harm none, do what thou wilt."
- Twpsyn Pentref
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I'm not going to do the nifty lesson (sorry, Dewrad), but make an announcement: my since-October-abandoned study of Welsh is about to be revived! Because in my area there's going to be a conversational Welsh course, and I'm going to do it, and I'm ever so excited! So maybe one day I'll be joining the exalted ranks of you fluent Welshophones (well, it was bound to happen someday, but perhaps sooner now). Hurrah!
Anyway, keep up the good work. Move along; nothing to see here.
Anyway, keep up the good work. Move along; nothing to see here.
Last edited by Twpsyn Pentref on Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
So take this body at sunset to the great stream whose pulses start in the blue hills, and let these ashes drift from the Long Bridge where only a late gull breaks that deep and populous grave.
Diolch yn fawr, Skurai! Dw i'n serchu Cymraeg hefyd!skurai wrote:Just thought I would share:
dw i
rwyt ti
mae e / mae o
mae hi
dyn ni
dych chi
maen nhw
and... here's a dictionary
Dw i'n serchu Cymraeg!
~Skurai
agus tha mo chluasan eòlach air a’ mhac-talla fhathast / às dèidh dhomh dùsgadh
(mona nicleòid wagner, “fo shneachd”)
(mona nicleòid wagner, “fo shneachd”)
No problem (how do you say that in welsh )Sectori wrote:Diolch yn fawr, Skurai! Dw i'n serchu Cymraeg hefyd!skurai wrote:Just thought I would share:
dw i
rwyt ti
mae e / mae o
mae hi
dyn ni
dych chi
maen nhw
and... here's a dictionary
Dw i'n serchu Cymraeg!
~Skurai
"An it harm none, do what thou wilt."
If your command of Welsh hasn't progressed beyond the material I'm presenting here, I would be most disappointed in you!Twpsyn Pentref wrote:I'm not going to do the nifty lesson (sorry, Dewrad),
Hurrah indeed! On which note, I've also taken up my long-abandoned study of Cornish again- primarily to complement my study of Breton. I've set myself the task of becoming competent in both and thus being able to speak all three Brythonic languages before the year is out!but make an announcement: my since-October-abandoned study of Welsh is about to be revived! Because in my area there's going to be a conversational Welsh course, and I'm going to do it, and I'm ever so excited! So maybe one day I'll be joining the exalted ranks of you fluent Welshophones (well, it was bound to happen someday, but perhaps sooner now. Hurrah!
Salmoneus wrote:(NB Dewrad is behaving like an adult - a petty, sarcastic and uncharitable adult, admittedly, but none the less note the infinitely higher quality of flame)
Hope you don't mind some comments on your table, skurai. There's nothing wrong with the forms you listed, but this is one of the areas of greatest dialectal variation. Dewrad, Turtlehead, and I each use a slightly different set.
dw i (Also S. (r)w i.)
rwyt ti (Usually shortened to ti.)
mae e / mae o (S./N.)
mae hi
dyn ni (N. usually dan ni.)
dych chi (N. usually dach chi.)
maen nhw
I'm not trying to make things more complicated than they need to be, but I want everyone to be prepared for what they're going to see on the board. The forms of bod are probably the trickiest part of Welsh--and, of course, they're involved in almost every sentence you make.
dw i (Also S. (r)w i.)
rwyt ti (Usually shortened to ti.)
mae e / mae o (S./N.)
mae hi
dyn ni (N. usually dan ni.)
dych chi (N. usually dach chi.)
maen nhw
I'm not trying to make things more complicated than they need to be, but I want everyone to be prepared for what they're going to see on the board. The forms of bod are probably the trickiest part of Welsh--and, of course, they're involved in almost every sentence you make.
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Bod is the only verb that conjugates in the present tense.
Here is the past.
Bues i
Buest ti
Buodd hi/e/o
Buoch chi
Buon ni
Buon nhw
For regular verbs it is.
-ais i
-aist ti
-odd hi/o/e
-och chi
-on ni
-och chi
Here is the past.
Bues i
Buest ti
Buodd hi/e/o
Buoch chi
Buon ni
Buon nhw
For regular verbs it is.
-ais i
-aist ti
-odd hi/o/e
-och chi
-on ni
-och chi
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
They fall into two types: (1) Those which always precede the noun and (2) those which precede or follow with a difference in meaning.Turtlehead wrote:Adjectives usually follow what they qualify though there are exceptions, even I don't know them all.
The first class consists mainly of quanitifiers:
(a) rhyw "some, certain" and all of its derivatives (e.g. amryw "several", cyfryw "such", unrhyw "any").
(b) holl "all", nemor "few", ychydig "few"
(c) aml "frequent", ambell "occasional", llawer "many". What these three have in common is that they can take i between them and the noun, e.g. llawer i blant "lots of children".
(d) cryn "considerable" (Practically confined to few set expressions like cryn dipyn "quite a little".)
(e) y naill "the one" (e.g. yn y naill iaith a'r llall "in the one language or the other" ~ "in either language").
(f) pob "each, every".
(g) pa "which, what" (e.g. pa fodd "how?", from modd "manner, means").
(h) gau "false", prif "chief".
(i) The plural adjectives uchelion "high" and dirgelion "secret".
These all cause soft mutation of the following noun with two exceptions: pob and llawer (when used without i, which is more usual). So fy holl gyfeillion "all my friends" but pob cyfaill "every friend".
Of the second class, only two are really commonly used before the noun: hen "old" and unig "only". After a noun, unig means "lonely". When used after a noun, hen always has the literal meaning of "ancient". Before a noun, it can mean this or it can simply serve to add familiarity, just as in English, e.g. Hen walch! "You old rascal!"
The others are:
cam "unjust" (before) vs. "crooked" (after)
gwir "genuine" (before) vs. "true" (after)
priod "proper" (before) vs. "married" (after)
union "exact" (before) vs. "straight" (after)
Finally, note that in poetry, all the rules go out the window and any adjective can follow or precede depending on the poet's purpose.
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Ni sy'n tr?o i'u newid nhw i Gymraeg nid eu gwneud nhw ei chasau hi .linguoboy wrote:Finally, note that in poetry, all the rules go out the window and any adjective can follow or precede depending on the poet's purpose.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
Yeah, I have heard about that, what a bitch :Slinguoboy wrote:Hope you don't mind some comments on your table, skurai. There's nothing wrong with the forms you listed, but this is one of the areas of greatest dialectal variation. Dewrad, Turtlehead, and I each use a slightly different set.
dw i (Also S. (r)w i.)
rwyt ti (Usually shortened to ti.)
mae e / mae o (S./N.)
mae hi
dyn ni (N. usually dan ni.)
dych chi (N. usually dach chi.)
maen nhw
I'm not trying to make things more complicated than they need to be, but I want everyone to be prepared for what they're going to see on the board. The forms of bod are probably the trickiest part of Welsh--and, of course, they're involved in almost every sentence you make.
Just a headsup, I wilol tend to use the southern version, since that's the one I learned first, and it's the one I like the most
"An it harm none, do what thou wilt."
Took me a full five minutes to figure out what the hell you were trying to say here. Some pointers:Turtlehead wrote:Ni sy'n tr?o i'u newid nhw i Gymraeg nid eu gwneud nhw ei chasau hi :D .linguoboy wrote:Finally, note that in poetry, all the rules go out the window and any adjective can follow or precede depending on the poet's purpose.
(1) This is Welsh, not English; tr?o is followed directly by the verb-noun without a preposition.
(2) i + eu contracts to i'w, not *i'u.
(3) newid is "convert" as in "change something into something else". In the sense of "turn to", a better choice would be troi at.
(4) You don't want nid here, you want na.
(5) Take that i you didn't need before and put it after gwneud, i.e. gwneud iddyn nhw "make them [do something]".
(6) Why is the focus on ni? It reads like "It is we who are trying...", as if someone had suggested it might be someone else. If you're going to emphasise something, it would make more sense to choose the contrasted element, i.e. troi nhw at Cymraeg dyn ni'n tr?o "Turning them to Welsh is what we're attempting".
(Mae flin 'da fi am herwgipio d'edau dy, Dewrad!)
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What are the other ones? It was meant to be a kind of question because I was unsure myself.Dewrad wrote:No it isn't.Turtlehead wrote:Bod is the only verb that conjugates in the present tense.
My bad. I so need more Welsh language books especially an idiomatic/colloquial something .linguoboy wrote:troi nhw at Cymraeg dyn ni'n tr?o "Turning them to Welsh is what we're attempting".
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ
Get Gareth King's Modern Welsh. It's published by Routledge, so it's easy to find; paperback, so it won't set you back too far; very readable, since he doesn't get more technical than he absolutely has to; and geared toward those learning to speak, so he spends far more time on spoken variation than on Literary Welsh. As he's the author of the Routledge Colloquial Welsh textbook, he's always writing with an English-speaking learner's problems in mind. (One whole chapter is dedicated to common errors made going from English to Welsh.)Turtlehead wrote:My bad. I so need more Welsh language books especially an idiomatic/colloquial something :D .
Dewrad and I have said it before: Your biggest single problem is carrying around the default assumption that Welsh works like English. Unless you've been explicitly instructed otherwise, you assume that the syntax will be exactly the same. As you can see, it's not a safe assumption.
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Celtic languages are meant to be the most grammatically different of the European languages that are in the indo-european family. Which celtic language would be the most difficult for an English speaker?linguoboy wrote:Dewrad and I have said it before: Your biggest single problem is carrying around the default assumption that Welsh works like English. Unless you've been explicitly instructed otherwise, you assume that the syntax will be exactly the same. As you can see, it's not a safe assumption.
I KEIM HEWE IN THE ΠVEΓININΓ TA LEAWN WELX, ΠVVT NAW THE ΠVWΠVΣE FVW ΠVEINΓ HEWE IΣ VNKLEAW. THAT IΣ WAIT I LIKE TA MAKE KAWNLANΓΣ AWN THE ΣΠAWT.
TVWTLEHEAΔ
TVWTLEHEAΔ