zompist bboard

Is it possible to have a word with no vowels? I''m not talking about syllabic consonants like nasals functioning as the nucleus - the example I was thinking of was more like using /p'/ as a one syllable preposition. Would this be more likely to be analyzed as a prefix, which would attach to the following word; or perhaps as having a voiceless vowel afterward? Or is it possible to have a vowelless (maybe I mean nucleus-less) syllable.

_________________

Aren't there prepositions like z or v in some slavic languages? I think I've seen some there.

Russian has some vowelless function words. So do some other Slavic languages (Polish?)

I speak neither Russian nor Polish, though. I just remember seeing them in texts.

(edit) well, there you go ^

_________________
— o noth sidiritt Tormiott

Russian has /v/ for 'in', and probably more like that. And French has /l/ as an definite article before words beginning in a vowel. Many Northern English dialects have /ʔ/ for 'the'. So it's certainly possible, but I don't know any examples with non-function words.

Case closed.

_________________

Catch me on YouTube.

But they are prefixed to the following word in speach or have a quick vowel following them.

French also has l' before consonants such as l'bazaar, but it is not a pure consonant.

_________________
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Ayeah. Along with plenty others.

Sonorants can be syllable nuclei easily.

German reduces final /əl(n)/ and final stop + /əm ən əŋ/ to syllabic consonants: <Deckel> [dɛ.kl̩], <wechseln> [vɛk.sl̩n], <bleiben> [blae.bm̩], <sagen> [zaː.gŋ̩], <können> [kʰœn.n̩] ...

_________________
giˈtaɹ.plɛɪ̯ɚ‿n dɪs.ˈgaɪz • Der Sprachbaukasten
And! Ayeri Reference Grammar (upd. 28 Sep 2010)

That's not what he's talking about, though.

You're talking about written colloquial French, right? Le is never condensed before a consonant (h muet doesn't count).

Shame on me for not properly reading the OP.

_________________
giˈtaɹ.plɛɪ̯ɚ‿n dɪs.ˈgaɪz • Der Sprachbaukasten
And! Ayeri Reference Grammar (upd. 28 Sep 2010)

Yes, colloquial French.

_________________
Falgwian and Falgwia!!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

You know, I even remember reading that one on Wikipedia, now that I think about it. I'd still want to hear someone pronounce it - I would definitely stick a few vowels in if I tried.

_________________

The UCLA phonetics archive does have a recording of some of the vowelless words from Nuxálk/Bella Coola, but I didn't find the sound quality very good:
http://archive.phonetics.ucla.edu/Language/BLC/blc.html

[deleted]

I can just barely wrap my tongue around that the bunchberry one—I get about 4 syllables with nucleuses pretty much falling on sibilants and laterals. It helps a lot that it's all voiceless; I find it more difficult to weed out vowels of long clusters containing voiced consonants. I can't find a recording of the bunchberry or the animal fat word specifically, but this is very cool.

Strč prst skrz krk, meaning "stick a finger through your neck" in Czech.
Smrž pln skvrn zvlhl z mlh "A morel full of spots wetted from fogs". (Here zvlhl has two syllables based on L; note that the preposition z consists of a single consonant. Only prepositions do this in Czech, and they normally link phonetically to the following noun, so do not really behave as vowelless words.) In Russian, there are also prepositions that consist of a single consonant letter, like k "to", v "in", and s "with". However, these forms are actually contractions of ko, vo, and so respectively, and these forms are still used in modern Russian before words with certain consonant clusters for ease of pronunciation.
Berber examples include /tkkststt/ "you took it off" and /tfktstt/ "you gave it". Some words may contain one or two consonants only: /ɡ/ "be", /ks/ "feed on".

Source: Wikipedia.

Once again.

I'd analyze it as a prefix unless there's a good reason not to, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.


I think Berber has an epenthetic vowel.

_________________
Siöö jandeng raiglin zåbei tandiüłåd;
nää džunnfin kukuch vklaivei sivei tåd.
Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei. Chei.

Russian has a total of six vowelless, one-consonant words:

/s/ = "with, off of"
/k/ = "to, towards"
/v/ = "in, into"
/b/ = subjunctive/conditional mood particle (~"would")
/Z/ = emphatic particle
/l_j/ = interrogative particle

They're usually just pronounced slurred into the neighboring words, though.

The last three of these are contracted forms of /b1/, /Ze/, and /l_ji/ respectively that occur as stylistic/positional variants. The first three, however, really are vowelless prepositional clitics.



No, they aren't. At least not strictly speaking. Ko, vo, and so are variants of k, v, and s with a filler vowel, not the other way around, even though the ancestral form did have a vowel. The regular development of the Common Slavic prepositions *kъ, *vъ, and *sъ in Russian yields simply /k/, /v/, and /s/, while /ko vo so/ are positional variants caused by things such as stress shifting or the general pattern of reduced vowel loss in Old East Slavic.

Even easier way to demonstrate it: As a Russian to say the word "in" or "with". They'll just say the consonant.



In Russian, for instance, they're best analyzed as clitics, since you can freely stick other words or phrases in between.

_________________
http://www.veche.net/
http://www.veche.net/novegradian - Grammar of Novegradian
http://www.veche.net/alashian - Grammar of Alashian

Mecislau covered everything I would have to say about Russian, but here's a Ukrainian example.
The word for "and" is usually і /i/, but if it comes after vowels it is й /j/.
Ukrainian has в /v/ (like in Russian), plus з /z/ which is a cognate of Russian с.
Polish has w /v/and z /z/ but I don't know about others.

I'm not an expert on Ukrainian or Polish so correct me if I'm wrong about these.

I'd like to hear a recording of the "bunchberry" word too. But, it's definitely possible; a while ago someone here was trying to make a language without vowels, and wanted a recording to make sure it was pronounceable or something. So I made one of a word from that language (the name of it, I think): [Cqstxnh]

_________________

Είναι όλα Ελληνικά για μένα.

That guy should work in sound effects for TV and radio. Unless, as I can't help suspecting, he was actually just spinning a rusty bicycle wheel instead of speaking...

_________________
Linguistics will become a science when linguists begin standing on one another's shoulders instead of on one another's toes.
—Stephen R. Anderson

Málin eru höfuðeinkenni þjóðanna.
—Séra Tómas Sæmundsson

@Silk: in pl there's also k "towards", archaic or dialectal (the standard form of this preposition is now ku, not that it is used very often anyway).

_________________
uciekajcie od światów konających

isn't church pretty much wholly consonantal ? [tʃɹtʃ]