Pacific Northwest Accent (Cascadian)

[Tropylium]

[ɫ] is a different case because this can be described as a natural class: back lateral. If you claim this isn't applicable to "bunched r" (as is certainly the case for Swedish "[ɧ]", which can be anything from [χ̳] to [fʷ]), then I don't see a reason to treat that as a single "sound".

Analogously actually, something like [ɰ˞] (I've even used this before, just didn't remember the thing!) would be an even better sign for any English "back non-coronal rhotic". My point is however that including other non-standard but non-back rhotics, say [ʋ], while still excluding standard [ɹ], under the same is a no-go.

[Aurora Rossa]

I wouldn't mind hearing more about this strong "s" in the Seattle dialect. What does it entail from a phonological perspective and where does it occur?

[Nortaneous]

[ɫ] is a different case because this can be described as a natural class: back lateral. If you claim this isn't applicable to "bunched r" (as is certainly the case for Swedish "[ɧ]", which can be anything from [χ̳] to [fʷ]), then I don't see a reason to treat that as a single "sound".

Natural classes can't be based on auditory similarity? English rhotics vary pretty heavily in their actual realization, but it's hard to tell, for example, [v\_G] from [R`] or [G_j_w] or whatever else.

[pharazon]

I wouldn't mind hearing more about this strong "s" in the Seattle dialect. What does it entail from a phonological perspective and where does it occur?

Oh my god don't even try, you will end up coming here and sounding like a retarded snake.

[Travis B.]

[ɫ] is a different case because this can be described as a natural class: back lateral. If you claim this isn't applicable to "bunched r" (as is certainly the case for Swedish "[ɧ]", which can be anything from [χ̳] to [fʷ]), then I don't see a reason to treat that as a single "sound".

Natural classes can't be based on auditory similarity? English rhotics vary pretty heavily in their actual realization, but it's hard to tell, for example, [v\_G] from [R`] or [G_j_w] or whatever else.

In the case of rhotics, this is definitely the case. My own rhotic, for instance, varies by position and environment between [ɰˤ], [ʁ̞ˤ], and [ɹ̠͡ɰˤ], yet is acoustically very close to the typical General American [ɹ] or [ɹ̠] despite being articulated completely differently from it. (This is to the point that I have had people insist from recordings that I must have [ɹ] or [ɹ̠], despite that I actually find those to be very hard to properly articulate.)

[Aurora Rossa]

Oh my god don't even try, you will end up coming here and sounding like a retarded snake.

I can't say my current accent will do me any favors.

[Aurora Rossa]

I want to sound authentic when I get to Seattle after all, so that I can fit into the local culture better. I can't seem to find many reports on the strong /s/, although admittedly the new Google feature of changing the search with each letter you type is not helping matters.

[Xephyr]

I want to sound authentic when I get to Seattle after all, so that I can fit into the local culture better. I can't seem to find many reports on the strong /s/, although admittedly the new Google feature of changing the search with each letter you type is not helping matters.

Yeah, and I bet I'd make tons of friends in Alabama if I put on a fake Southern accent when I moved there.

[Aurora Rossa]

Yeah, and I bet I'd make tons of friends in Alabama if I put on a fake Southern accent when I moved there.

I am not talking about a fake Cascadian accent but a real one based on actual phonological studies and so forth. I also want more than just friendship. I want to fit in.

And you lived in Alabama?

[Radius Solis]

Ssufficce it to sssay, there are few if any sssstudiessss on thissss that would be usssseful in helping you change your acccccent. Jusssssst ssssssssspeak like normal and nobody will tell the differenccccccccccccccccce. With your vowels maybe, but not with your ssssssssssssssssssssssibilantssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[Nortaneous]

eddy i have a massive redneck accent and the only times i've been to the midwest i definitely did not fit in even though i sounded almost exactly like them

if you really think that culture is equivalent to how you sound, shut the fuck up and go outside for once

[Aurora Rossa]

I would think you of all people would support my goal here, Nortaneous. Don't you consider it important for immigrants to assimilate to the culture of their new home and learn the language as soon as possible?

[Pthagnar]

the language is called english

[Pthagnar]

although it appears to be possibly parseltongue i am not sure??

[Nortaneous]

Don't you consider it important for immigrants to assimilate to the culture of their new home and learn the language as soon as possible?

You already speak the language, and you probably follow at least a good approximation of the culture; obviously, you don't have the knowledge of bands, restaurants, and whatever else that are local to Seattle, but that's probably easy enough to fix.

Besides, most people don't notice minor phonological differences. I'd have to lose the redneck accent if I end up moving to, say, California, but major prosodic differences are a lot more marked than minor differences in the realization of sibilants, or, hell, even pronunciation differences in a few words. I have /ar/ where I'm "supposed to" have /or/ in a few words, but nobody gives a shit, and even in California, nobody would give a shit, because yeah, I spent 17 years in Maryland. People will joke about it, but nobody really cares; it's not like living in PG County and hating pizza from Ledo's. But even the Chinese kids with funny accents around here are still Marylanders as long as they eat at Ledo's and bitch about tourists, although they have accents far more distinctive than a St. Louis accent would be in Seattle. If you fit in well enough everywhere else, nobody gives a fuck how you sound as long as they can understand what you're saying and you don't sound like you're from a "bad" culture (rednecks, for example).

So basically language != culture. I fit better in Maryland than the Midwest, even though Marylanders think I sound like I'm from the Midwest. (Not entirely sure how that happened. It's probably because my dad's family is from Tennessee, so he also has the accent, and I don't go outside ever these days except for class so I don't talk to much of anyone else.)

Fuck it, I'm rambling. Just stop worrying so fucking much. Minor pronunciation differences are an insignificant enough part of culture that you can get by perfectly well without them. And if you're that worried for some reason, fuck it, learn a stereotypical exaggerated redneck accent, complete with [ˌg̥ɪɾʁ̟ˈɽʌ̃n] and [ʌ̃ːːːˈjɛə̯p̚] and [d̥ʌ̃n dɪjəd̥̚] all over the place, and play that shit for laughs.

[Aurora Rossa]

Besides, most people don't notice minor phonological differences.

Kereb tells me my phonological differences are not minor, though.

[Kereb]

>:|

Yes and I've been told that MY accent is markedly "Canadian" even though I never noticed anything about it until I started to listen more carefully to the speech of my friends from Places.

One of the reasons I'm frustrated with your whole accent complex is that it seems to have started with a comment I made on skype, which is probably what you're referring to here. Yes, I remarked on your accent -- I think I remarked on everyone's accent at *some* point, as there were people from England and Finland in on those chats as well.
But then you won't listen to me when I say your accent is not a big deal. It's not that impressive. You WOULD sound different to my ears, cause you're from like two thousand miles away. I'm a language nerd, I notice accents; most people don't pay so much attention.

Saturday was always laughing and making me repeat myself when I said "about" ... but I'm not about to train myself to say it his way.

[candrodor]

Was this the same chat as when vlad made fun of my 'month' vowel? And made me repeat it a few times just so he could be sure I don't differentiate FOOT and STRUT vowels? omgnoes I speak funny.

[Kereb]

no I don't think I ever skope with vlad

[Io]

How old Skype confs are we talking aboot?

[Aurora Rossa]

But then you won't listen to me when I say your accent is not a big deal. It's not that impressive. You WOULD sound different to my ears, cause you're from like two thousand miles away. I'm a language nerd, I notice accents; most people don't pay so much attention.

But what is the problem with wanting to fit in better with the area where I will live (and presumably spend the rest of my life)?

[Kereb]

Stop asking that. People keep answering you. Start listening.

Nobody said there's something wrong with wanting to fit in.

Everybody keeps telling you that YOUR WAY of trying to fit in is stupid and won't work.

But you lack the capacity for metacognition. You cannot examine your own ideas.

And so you cannot separate "trying to fit in" with "what I think is the way to try to fit in". You keep answering critiques of the latter as if they were critiques of the former.

Seriously, go back and re-read any time someone's told you this accent thing is stupid. They're not telling you that trying to adapt is a bad thing. They're telling you EDDY'S WAY OF ADAPTING is misguided and doomed to miserable failure.

[Aurora Rossa]

Seriously, go back and re-read any time someone's told you this accent thing is stupid. They're not telling you that trying to adapt is a bad thing. They're telling you EDDY'S WAY OF ADAPTING is misguided and doomed to miserable failure.

What makes it misguided and stupid? Haven't people changed their accents all the time for the sake of fitting in? I have usually heard it claimed that such changes are the main engine behind linguistic change.

[Radius Solis]

Accent adaptation is a natural process that generally will happen on its own, if you let it. People do not normally adapt their accents to those of new places by studying the phonetic features of the new speech variety and making an effort to switch to those. They do it by talking to people every day in the course of normal life, and gradually their pronunciation mostly or fully accommodates itself to the new norm without their ever having to notice.

It may be true that it happens faster if you are making a deliberate effort to change your accent. But 1. it will not even start happening until you are surrounded by the new accent in your daily life, and 2. I suspect strongly that those who make a conscious effort to try to adapt their speech are exactly the ones who never get it perfectly right. They let their brains get in the way.

[Bristel]

although it appears to be possibly parseltongue i am not sure??

Yes, actually... In Sssseattle we ssspeak like sssnakesss.